Ignorance and the Bible

Jewish history is in there too!
The Bible is the ultimate Catch 22 ,to understand the Bible truly,you'll need the Holy Spirit! If you have the Holy Spirit, you don't really need the Bible except as a secondary source!
"There's only one Catch"!
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Right, the Deuteronomistic history in the Hebrew Bible did contain legitimate historical narrative about the unified kingdom and the first temple period. Before the advent of modern archeology, it was our best source of historical information about the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Israelites.

But this stuff was written by scribes who were compiling an oral tradition that was centuries old, so the Deuteronomistic history has to be read with a critical and skeptical eye.
 
Poor Frank. Mental decline has him stuck in his “blind guess” bullshit.

I’m am not militant, nor Christian-hating, nor cherry picking. I merely wish people would not check their brains at the door when they examine the dogma of their religions, especially the Christian religion we are most familiar with. They all have their problems, but Christians simply have a bigger footprint in this country.

I don’t know, nor do I care whether the stated demographic is correct or not. As for the young having strong beliefs or opinions that often take decades, or even a lifetime to sort out, I really don’t pay them much heed. I’ve changed my stance on any number of issues since I was young and thought I had all the answers. Most of them don’t even know the fucking questions!
Who is Frank? Yes, mental decline is often at work among haters, cherry-pickers and the like.

Ummm....not as militant as young @gmark77. We can agree to disagree on cherry-picking. What is the solution? Education camps?

Wow. You don't care about facts. What an awesome confession! Agreed on young people. I used to be an atheist in my teens. I was very RW in my 20s and 30s but I've mellowed a lot since then. People can change if they were willing to change. Sometimes they do it on their own, sometimes they need positive motivation.
 
There is no solution when generation after ignorant generation peddles the same myths as fact. As time passes, science will prevail and the God of the Gaps will slowly fade into insignificance.

Education, with an emphasis on critical thinking, is a start. Alas, too much of the population remains uneducated and possess no critical thinking skills. Many, willfully so.
See? You are bitter and militant. As posted previously I believe human history proves human beings have 3 components; mental, physical and spiritual. This is shown across all cultures around the planet. Young people lacking the spiritual component is one thing. Just part of growing up. Older people lacking this component strike me as lacking the ability like a color blind person can't see certain colors. It doesn't make them less human, but their inability becomes understandable.
 
I have some news. This message board is hardly a significant representation of anything.
Thanks for acknowledging my point that atheists here read the Bible as strictly and as literally as most nutjob Bible thumper do.

You guys, and Richard Dawkins + Christopher Hitchens are almost the only evidence I have to go on. I don't meet atheists in real life who spend time complaining about the Old Testament.
After a career of working with and among scientists, my little retirement job in retail has me exposed to an entirely different mentality. I can assure you, a great many are unable to differentiate between allegory, myth, hyperbole, metaphor or the truth.
I never said there weren't substantial numbers of people and nut jobs who read the Bible as literal history and fact: I have named several of the groups - aka, atheists, Pentecostals, conservative Southern Baptists, right-wing evangelical Bible thumpers.
 
I have some news. This message board is hardly a significant representation of anything.

After a career of working with and among scientists, my little retirement job in retail has me exposed to an entirely different mentality. I can assure you, a great many are unable to differentiate between allegory, myth, hyperbole, metaphor or the truth.
It's significant to upset you and your young cohort. :D

The lack of education in American is apparent in our election results over the past 30 years.
 
You have a complaint about Job, but don't want to take your complaint to YHWH???
You truly are confused, aren’t you? I’m questioning YOU about your irrational beliefs. Trying to point out the obvious.

I recognize the myth for what it is. Fictional story. Fictional characters. That’s what you fail to do.
 
12 year olds say the silliest things. LOL

He's whining that the Evangelistas are pushing religion in government and I agree with the kid on that point. What it doesn't prove is that the Bible is a complete fabrication as the kid asserts.
I don't think there is a legitimate scholar of antiquity on the planet who will say the books of the Bible collectively are a complete fabrication written by people with the intent to deceive.

I'd guess maybe only about ten percent of the Bible is reliable historical narrative, and the rest is parable, metaphor, hyperbole, myth, wisdom literature, poetry, rules and regulations.
 
You contradict yourself ,you cry about YHWH's actions with Job,but yet claim he is a "mythical storm God"?
Make up your mind
You truly are willfully ignorant of where YHWH originated, aren’t you?

YHWH was a second tier Canaanite storm god in the pantheon of gods. El was the top dog at the time. Over time, YHWH rose up the godly social ladder and emerged as the top dog. Even stole El’s woman for his own. As polytheism started to fade, YHWH became the ONLY god. YOUR god. If you actually studied what your book says, rather than take it as fact, you would recognize polytheistic traits in the 10 Commandments and Genesis.

But you don’t because you are comfortable in your ignorance. Ignorance is bliss is very true on your part.

That’s why I say that atheists often know more about your religion than you do.
 
There is some literal history, but it's specifically written to need a translator! In the end the Bible isn't much help if you don't have a personal relationship with YHWH through the Holy Spirit!
I read through the Bible once. 99.9% of the time ,I was trained by the Holy Spirit.
Only in your imagination. Hearing voices is a form of schizophrenia. Hearing holy voices is theological schizophrenia.
 
You truly are confused, aren’t you? I’m questioning YOU about your irrational beliefs. Trying to point out the obvious.

I recognize the myth for what it is. Fictional story. Fictional characters. That’s what you fail to do.
As you confessed earlier that you don't care about facts, statistics and demographics, but my humble recommendation is to separate people into different categories. Rational vs. Irrational is a good one. Educated vs. less educated is another. Experienced vs. inexperienced, mature vs. immature, male vs. female, and American vs. foreigner just a name a few. Once assessed, people are easier to figure out. This works well with religious fanatics and militant atheists alike. :)

You mentioned working with scientists. Psychological assessments also use the scientific method: observation, experimentation, and evidence-based reasoning. This is why your dismissal of demographics raised an eyebrow with me since you are denying data in pursuit of an emotional argument.

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I don't think there is a legitimate scholar of antiquity on the planet who will say the books of the Bible collectively are a complete fabrication written by people with the intent to deceive.

I'd guess maybe only about ten percent of the Bible is reliable historical narrative, and the rest is parable, metaphor, hyperbole, myth, wisdom literature, poetry, rules and regulations.
Not even the birth story is reliable historic narrative, yet millions flock to Bethlehem every year, don’t they? Catholics and their Virgin Mother.

Nothing allegorical, no poetry, no rules or regulations. Just two contradictory stories, neither of which is true.
 
As you confessed earlier that you don't care about facts, statistics and demographics, but my humble recommendation is to separate people into different categories. Rational vs. Irrational is a good one. Educated vs. less educated is another. Experienced vs. inexperienced, mature vs. immature, male vs. female, and American vs. foreigner just a name a few. Once assessed, people are easier to figure out.

You mentioned working with scientists. Psychological assessments also use the scientific method: observation, experimentation, and evidence-based reasoning. This is why your dismissal of demographics raised an eyebrow with me since you are denying data in pursuit of an emotional argument.

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I questioned your demographics, not dismissed them. And I truly don’t give a shit about them. In the context of this thread, rational vs irrational is a good start for sorting people out.

The irrational mind tends to accept the historical accuracy of something as simple and straightforward as the birth story. The rational mind recognizes the contradictions and comes to the rational conclusion that it is all a concoction. From the time, location, reason and the virgin.

See how that works? That’s called evidence-based reasoning.
 
Not even the birth story is reliable historic narrative, yet millions flock to Bethlehem every year, don’t they? Catholics and their Virgin Mother.
You have to use the tools of literary criticism to extract the reliable nuggets of historical information.

The birth narrative only occurs in two gospels and is not widely attested to. You could get rid of the two birth narratives and it would change nothing about the fundamental Christian beliefs about salvation, grace, and ethics. John, Mark, Peter, and Paul say nothing about the birth narrative. The key event and most important and transformational event in Christian belief is the death and resurrection of Jesus.
 
Who is Frank? Yes, mental decline is often at work among haters, cherry-pickers and the like.

Ummm....not as militant as young @gmark77. We can agree to disagree on cherry-picking. What is the solution? Education camps?

Wow. You don't care about facts. What an awesome confession! Agreed on young people. I used to be an atheist in my teens. I was very RW in my 20s and 30s but I've mellowed a lot since then. People can change if they were willing to change. Sometimes they do it on their own, sometimes they need positive motivation.
Where did I say I don’t care about facts? If you’re talking about your unverified demographics, they may or may not be fact. What they are to me is insignificant.
 
I don't think there is a legitimate scholar of antiquity on the planet who will say the books of the Bible collectively are a complete fabrication written by people with the intent to deceive.

I'd guess maybe only about ten percent of the Bible is reliable historical narrative, and the rest is parable, metaphor, hyperbole, myth, wisdom literature, poetry, rules and regulations.
Agreed, yet young, militant atheists keep pushing that argument out of ignorance. IMO, they're just angry because growing up isn't easy.

A good question which I Googled but couldn't find any scientific numbers. I did find the link below about the NT which indicates most of it is verifiable at least to the point people wrote or spoke about the events noted. Things like Jesus rising from the dead are one thing, but Paul's letters are another. It's like saying "Mein Kampf" is 99% accurate meaning, yes, Hitler existed and Hitler wrote it but no one has to agree with him or his little struggle. Same goes with Paul. His views are his views. Later generations chose to focus upon his views to help canonize the Bible. I don't know how many other books or writers were ignored since they didn't conform to the agenda being pushed.

 
Where did I say I don’t care about facts? If you’re talking about your unverified demographics, they may or may not be fact. What they are to me is insignificant.
Oh, so Gallup isn't fact but your opinions are. Fascinating!
I don’t know, nor do I care whether the stated demographic is correct or not.

Cherry-picking. How many Christians believe the Bible is "the inerrant word of God"? Hint: 20%*

Only a fucking moron can't see the inconsistencies in the Bible and only fucking morons get in a snit about it. Your little 12-year-old fellow atheist is one of them.
*https://news.gallup.com/poll/394262/fewer-bible-literal-word-god.aspx
A record-low 20% of Americans now say the Bible is the literal word of God, down from 24% the last time the question was asked in 2017, and half of what it was at its high points in 1980 and 1984. Meanwhile, a new high of 29% say the Bible is a collection of "fables, legends, history and moral precepts recorded by man." This marks the first time significantly more Americans have viewed the Bible as not divinely inspired than as the literal word of God. The largest percentage, 49%, choose the middle alternative, roughly in line with where it has been in previous years.
 
There is some literal history, but it's specifically written to need a translator! In the end the Bible isn't much help if you don't have a personal relationship with YHWH through the Holy Spirit!
I read through the Bible once. 99.9% of the time ,I was trained by the Holy Spirit.
My two cents is that somebody could read Luke, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Romans, Philippians and then you'll basically have all the tenets of Christian ethics and theology.
 
See? You are bitter and militant. As posted previously I believe human history proves human beings have 3 components; mental, physical and spiritual. This is shown across all cultures around the planet. Young people lacking the spiritual component is one thing. Just part of growing up. Older people lacking this component strike me as lacking the ability like a color blind person can't see certain colors. It doesn't make them less human, but their inability becomes understandable.
From the first cave paintings in France and Spain, it's pretty obvious that homo sapiens had an innate predisposition for the spiritual and transcendent.

We can argue until the cows come home as to why that is. But the reason genuine atheists will probably never make up more than five to ten percent of the human population, is we generally do not believe reality is limited to what our senses can ascertain, and that life, the universe, and everything is not ultimately best explained by quarks and electrons.
 
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