Is the United States of America a republic or a democracy?

[iolo]

Any countries that are communist are basically socialist since that is an essential element of communism; yet, I don't see much democracy in those nations. You are confusing economic and political systems. It is not about my brainwashing but about your lack of understanding of basic economics and political science.

Codswallop! You are talking about State capitalism, as you know. You can tell the difference: where you have a boss class, no socialism.

 

[cawacko]

In the brief months before your thugs murdered the socialists, obviously

Any particular examples?

 

[Cypress]

Where has socialism existed where that hasn't occurred?

Your party, including some of it's leading politicians, and many of your fellow rightwing message boarders, have spent entire careers wailing about the "socialism" of western Europe....and using the term "European Socialism" as a derogatory epithet. There is no point denying it, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

That means you cannot simply run away from that track record when I point out that socialism - more precisely, democratic socialism - has been remarkably effective in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and a host of other western European countries.

 

[cawacko]

Your party, including some of it's leading politicians, and many of your fellow rightwing message boarders, have spent entire careers wailing about the "socialism" of western Europe....and using the term "European Socialism" as a derogatory epithet. There is no point denying it, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

That means you cannot simply run away from that track record when I point out that socialism - more precisely, democratic socialism - has been remarkably effective in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and a host of other western European countries.

Iolo is talking about straight socialism with no government. Because all the Western European countries still have "thiefs" (people who create things and make money). Unless I'm misunderstanding him you are choosing not to follow along with his desires and definitions. And Western European countries have governments

 

[Cypress]

Iolo is talking about straight socialism with no government. Because all the Western European countries still have "thiefs" (people who create things and make money). Unless I'm misunderstanding him you are choosing not to follow along with his desires and definitions. And Western European countries have governments

I bet if someone said you had to choose between living in conservative Alabama, or "socialist" Sweden....you would pick Sweden in a nanosecond....and I wouldn't blame you in the least, because Scandinavian women tend to be hot! Second only to Slavic women!

 

[cawacko]

I bet if someone said you had to choose between living in conservative Alabama, or "socialist" Sweden....you would pick Sweden in a nanosecond....and I wouldn't blame you in the least, because Scandinavian women tend to be hot! Second only to Slavic women!

I went to the Alabama-USC game in Dallas two years ago and there were some smoke show women from Alabama there. It would be a win-win situation either way!

 

[Flash]

Your party, including some of it's leading politicians, and many of your fellow rightwing message boarders, have spent entire careers wailing about the "socialism" of western Europe....and using the term "European Socialism" as a derogatory epithet. There is no point denying it, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

That means you cannot simply run away from that track record when I point out that socialism - more precisely, democratic socialism - has been remarkably effective in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and a host of other western European countries.

Those countries are not socialist but very pro-capitalist. You are confusing socialism with a expansive social welfare system. In the 1960's Sweden's economy began to decline and in the 1990s it reduced government spending and regulation, shrank the government, and reformed its welfare program and its economy has been improving. It has a 62% individual income tax, 7% social security tax, and 25% consumption tax.

 

[evince]

Those countries are not socialist but very pro-capitalist. You are confusing socialism with a expansive social welfare system. In the 1960's Sweden's economy began to decline and in the 1990s it reduced government spending and regulation, shrank the government, and reformed its welfare program and its economy has been improving. It has a 62% individual income tax, 7% social security tax, and 25% consumption tax.

link

 

[Flash]

Cosswallop! You are talking about State capitalism, as you know. You can tell the difference: where you have a boss class, no socialism.

If there is no government there is no socialism. I think you are confusing socialism with some type of communitarianism. Such arrangements by nature are very basic societies with no industrialization

 

[Flash]

link

"Sweden’s small, open, and competitive economy has been thriving and Sweden has achieved an enviable standard of living with its combination of free-market capitalism and extensive welfare benefits. Sweden remains outside the euro zone largely out of concern that joining the European Economic and Monetary Union would diminish the country’s sovereignty over its welfare system." [CIA World Factbook]

"But what the Swedish Social Democrats did not do is also significant. By and large, the SAP has made no attempt to challenge capitalist ownership and control of industry.
Indeed, the Social Democrats have always taken the capitalist framework for granted, with the exception of a brief period of radicalization in the 1970s when the SAP advocated the gradual replacement of capitalist control of industry with a form of working-class ownership and control." [SocialistWorker.org]

Without government ownership and control of industry it is not socialism.

 

[iolo]

Any particular examples?

Paris Commune, Russia, Hungary, Spain,etc etc - every country that has attempted to remove the capitalist dictatorship, in short.

 

[Flash]

Paris Commune, Russia, Hungary, Spain,etc etc - every country that has attempted to remove the capitalist dictatorship, in short.

What thugs murdered the socialists in Russia and Hungary? Those socialist economies collapsed due to their own failures. When did Spain try to remove capitalism? Even the Mondragon worker cooperative in Spain is a privately owned (capitalist) organization.

And who do you mean by "your thugs"?

 

[PraiseKek]

Is the United States of America a republic or a democracy?
By Eugene Volokh May 13, 2015

I often hear people argue that the United States is a republic, not a democracy. But that’s a false dichotomy. A common definition of “republic” is, to quote the American Heritage Dictionary, “A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them” — we are that.

A common definition of “democracy” is, “Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives” — we are that, too.

The United States is not a direct democracy, in the sense of a country in which laws (and other government decisions) are made predominantly by majority vote.

Some lawmaking is done this way, on the state and local levels, but it’s only a tiny fraction of all lawmaking. But we are a representative democracy, which is a form of democracy.

And indeed the American form of government has been called a “democracy” by leading American statesmen and legal commentators from the Framing on. It’s true that some Framing-era commentators made arguments that distinguished “democracy” and “republic”; see, for instance, The Federalist (No. 10), though even that first draws the distinction between “pure democracy” and a “republic,” only later just saying “democracy.”

But even in that era, “representative democracy” was understood as a form of democracy, alongside “pure democracy”: John Adams used the term “representative democracy” in 1794; so did Noah Webster in 1785; so did St. George Tucker in his 1803 edition of Blackstone; so did Thomas Jefferson in 1815. Tucker’s Blackstone likewise uses “democracy” to describe a representative democracy, even when the qualifier “representative” is omitted.


Likewise, James Wilson, one of the main drafters of the Constitution and one of the first Supreme Court Justices, defended the Constitution in 1787 by speaking of the three forms of government being the “monarchical, aristocratical, and democratical,” and said that in a democracy the sovereign power is “inherent in the people, and is either exercised by themselves or by their representatives.”


And Chief Justice John Marshall — who helped lead the fight in the 1788 Virginia Convention for ratifying the U.S. Constitution — likewise defended the Constitution in that convention by describing it as implementing “democracy” (as opposed to “despotism”), and without the need to even add the qualifier “representative.”

To be sure, in addition to being a representative democracy, the United States is also a constitutional democracy, in which courts restrain in some measure the democratic will. And the United States is therefore also a constitutional republic. Indeed, the United States might be labeled a constitutional federal representative democracy.

But where one word is used, with all the oversimplification that this necessary entails, “democracy” and “republic” both work. Indeed, since direct democracy — again, a government in which all or most laws are made by direct popular vote — would be impractical given the number and complexity of laws that pretty much any state or national government is expected to enact, it’s unsurprising that the qualifier “representative” would often be omitted.

Practically speaking, representative democracy is the only democracy that’s around at any state or national level.

continued


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...public-or-a-democracy/?utm_term=.c5eccefbbdc6

It's a representative democratic republic under a constitutional federalist system. It's a liberal democracy.

 

[iolo]

What thugs murdered the socialists in Russia and Hungary? Those socialist economies collapsed due to their own failures. When did Spain try to remove capitalism? Even the Mondragon worker cooperative in Spain is a privately owned (capitalist) organization.

And who do you mean by "your thugs"?

The 'white' thugs and the rest of the eighteen armies you sent to destroy democracy in Russia, and the paid Romanians in Hungary. Try a history book.

 

[evince]

a republic is a type of democracy folks


the whole idea that we are not a democracy was part of this Russian influence

 

[Flash]

The 'white' thugs and the rest of the eighteen armies you sent to destroy democracy in Russia, and the paid Romanians in Hungary. Try a history book.

Are you referring to the 1918 invasion? They didn't destroy anything because they accomplished little.

You need to try a history book if you think Russia ever had democracy.

 

[Flash]

a republic is a type of democracy folks


the whole idea that we are not a democracy was part of this Russian influence

Whether a republic is a type of democracy depends entirely on how it operates. A republic is ruled by representatives of the people. There is not much of a democratic element unless the people have a big role in choosing those representatives. Under the original U. S. Constitution only the House was elected by the voters--that means most of the governmental representatives were not chosen by the people which made it a much less democratic institution than what we have today.

Can you provide a link showing how Russians said we are not a democracy?

 

[iolo]

Are you referring to the 1918 invasion? They didn't destroy anything because they accomplished little.

You need to try a history book if you think Russia ever had democracy.

You're off your head. They destroyed socialism, as you know, leaving the typical capitalist boss-class in power in both places.

 

[Flash]

You're off your head. They destroyed socialism, as you know, leaving the typical capitalist boss-class in power in both places.

Who destroyed socialism? What army invaded Russian in what year? The Soviet Union collapsed, it was not destroyed. And it never had democracy. It had socialism as part of the communist system but that is separate from its political system. Socialism can exist in a democratic political system, authoritarian system, fascist system.

 

[iolo]

Who destroyed socialism? What army invaded Russian in what year? The Soviet Union collapsed, it was not destroyed. And it never had democracy. It had socialism as part of the communist system but that is separate from its political system. Socialism can exist in a democratic political system, authoritarian system, fascist system.

The year of the Revolution, obviously, 1917. The working class was driven back to the villages by the eighteen armies, and what was left of the Party had no option but to fight for personal and family survival and become a new boss class as part of your capitalism. as you know perfectly well.