It was the state attorney's office, not local authorities

[Cancel 2016.2]

The only thing I got out of the video is that Zimmerman is not the fat fuck he appeared to be in the first picture of him published. That's about the only conclusion I could draw from that. The police did seem to be treating him with kid gloves for someone who had just killed a person but you can't draw any conclusions from that.

Nor is Martin the 12 year old in the picture the media continually uses for him. Funny how the choice of photos by the media are shaping opinions.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

what is so interesting about it. fairly routine...

That may be but they were the ones who convinced local authorities not to file charges on the grounds that they didnt' think they could win a conviction. That was probably bad advice due to the obvious public outrage and backlash and I'd like to know what those grounds were?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Disagree with two points,
1. Of course yurt is being biased, in your noble attempt to be fair minded you are overlooking the obvious.
2. I am not comfortable at all with the police response and neither are they, hence the suspended police chief. Pull your rose colored glasses off for minute.

As for #2... it could also be that they asked him to step aside to try and calm the storm while this case proceeds. Had Lee been left in charge things may have boiled up faster. That said, it could also be that they think Lee did something wrong. Once again though, you are speculating. We don't know the facts behind that decision either. Other than the council was under extreme pressure to do something.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

That may be but they were the ones who convinced local authorities not to file charges on the grounds that they didnt' think they could win a conviction. That was probably bad advice due to the obvious public outrage and backlash and I'd like to know what those grounds were?

imo, they should not decide whether there is enough evidence to bring the case to trial based on public outrage or backlash. that is not what our justice system stands for.

i also would like to know why they didn't feel there was enough evidence to at least investigate further. the only thing i can thing of is they have witness testimony, other than zimmerman, that backs up zimmerman's claim. i can't believe they wouldn't proceed based solely on zimmerman's claims. then again...stranger things have happened.

 

[christiefan915]

there was racism in the 40's and 50's...shocking i tell you...i'm sure no where else in america had racial issues back then.

why is it always about race when the victim is black?

Duh. I suppose that's a rhetorical question, or should be.

Blacks Say History of Bias Against Them in FL City

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I think it's interesting that the State Attorney's office was involved in the initial determination not to charge him. In another thread, you and I were discussing what prosecutors were advising the police that they could not make any charges stick.

I think that is interesting as well. Because it does explain the Fed's involvement that early in the case and does validate your earlier position that the State failed in protecting Martin's rights as it also makes my initial position that it was the locals wrong.

That said, we have a lot more information now than we did then. Given what we know now, I can see why they didn't arrest him right away. I think it appropriate that the Fed stepped in when it did.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Well, was it reasonable for Zimmerman to think he was suspicious? I don't think so.

If the accounts of increased crime in the neighborhood are correct, then yes, I can see justification for Zimmerman being suspicious. Which is not to say I think Martin himself did anything to warrant it. But if you have an increase in crime caused mostly by black men, then yes, I can see profiling and being suspicious of a black man that you do not recognize from the neighborhood.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

No, it's completely accurate. It's completely false to claim he did not say Martin was black. He most certainly did. On what basis did Zimmerman think he was on drugs? It's completely unreasonable to suspect someone is on drugs based on Zimmerman's description of what Martin was doing -- walking down the street and looking around. There is nothing it the 911 call that gives rise to any reason to suspect Martin of anything. Presumably, Zimmerman gave the 911 operator the reasons why he wanted the police to come out so I think it safe to assume that Zimmerman included all information that gave rise to his suspicion.

By the way, what was the "other suspicious activity?"




You're such a martyr, Yurt.

you mean when he was describing martin? that is not racist. stop being such a hack. you mentioned he brought his race in a racial manner...other than the alleged coon comment, how is anything he said racist?

it quite common for witnesses to testify whether someone was on drugs, drunk etc...it happens all the time. and from what martin said...the police apparently also agreed it was suspicious because they agreed to come check out the situation.

you must live in a cave to believe that no one can tell if someone is acting suspicious. you weren't there, you don't know all that martin saw. you're passing off speculation as if it were fact. what is it with you lefties?

 

[Bonestorm]

If the accounts of increased crime in the neighborhood are correct, then yes, I can see justification for Zimmerman being suspicious. Which is not to say I think Martin himself did anything to warrant it. But if you have an increase in crime caused mostly by black men, then yes, I can see profiling and being suspicious of a black man that you do not recognize from the neighborhood.

Well, I think that's horseshit.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

That may be but they were the ones who convinced local authorities not to file charges on the grounds that they didnt' think they could win a conviction. That was probably bad advice due to the obvious public outrage and backlash and I'd like to know what those grounds were?

My GUESS would be that there is something in the paramedics report to corroborate what Zimmerman had told police. I think that needs to be released at this point. Did he sustain the injuries stated in the police report and according to Zimmerman? Or not?

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

I think that is interesting as well. Because it does explain the Fed's involvement that early in the case and does validate your earlier position that the State failed in protecting Martin's rights as it also makes my initial position that it was the locals wrong.

That said, we have a lot more information now than we did then. Given what we know now, I can see why they didn't arrest him right away. I think it appropriate that the Fed stepped in when it did.

he was arrested right away. he was arrested that very night....

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Well, I think that's horseshit.

You are quite entitled to your opinion. I know many liberals are not a fan of profiling. To a degree I understand that. But in this case, I can see Zimmerman's point of view. It doesn't make him right, but I can see justification for his feeling that way.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

he was arrested right away. he was arrested that very night....

sorry, should have stated 'charged' him right away.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

That was pretty much my impression. I'm with holding judgement until I've seen a report of a much more comprehensive ivestigation. My main concern is that I'd hate to see Zimmerman walk if he did indeed commit a crime and secondly, if Zimmerman did commit manslaughter, by most State standards, but walks due to a flawed "Stand Your Ground" law, then I want to see action taken in regards to ammending or repealing that law. Thirdly, if the facts of the investigation show there was any racial profiling involved by any officials involved with this investigation I want to see heads roll.

agreed.

zimmerman claims martin went for his gun...if that is true, that is a huge turning point, unless zimmerman had the gun out and martin was defending his life. i have a hunch that we may never know what truly happened, unless there is a TP witness.

 

[Bonestorm]

you mean when he was describing martin? that is not racist. stop being such a hack. you mentioned he brought his race in a racial manner...other than the alleged coon comment, how is anything he said racist?

I didn't say anything about racism or anything along those lines at all.

it quite common for witnesses to testify whether someone was on drugs, drunk etc...it happens all the time. and from what martin said...the police apparently also agreed it was suspicious because they agreed to come check out the situation.

No, it isn't quite common unless you have a horseshit attorney who doesn't know his ass from his elbow. It is quite common for people to testify as to what they specifically observed that led them to believe that the person was drunk or on drugs, i.e. he was staggering, stunk of alcohol, bloodshot eyes, smelled like marijuana, was overly excited and the like. Also, the fact that the police came to check out the situation doesn't mean diddly squat. That's what they do when they get a call asking them to check something out.

you must live in a cave to believe that no one can tell if someone is acting suspicious. you weren't there, you don't know all that martin saw. you're passing off speculation as if it were fact. what is it with you lefties?

I'm going off of what Zimmerman himself said about Martin in his call to the cops to report suspicious activity. In this call one what expect Zimmerman to provide the reasons why he thinks Martin was acting suspiciously. The reasons he gave fall well short of a reasonable basis to suspect Martin of anything more than walking down the street while black in a hoodie.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Nor is Martin the 12 year old in the picture the media continually uses for him. Funny how the choice of photos by the media are shaping opinions.

I hear what you're saying and you make a very good point but it hasn't really done much to shape my opinion. I'm still pretty damned unsympathetic towards Zimmerman.

 

[Bonestorm]

You are quite entitled to your opinion. I know many liberals are not a fan of profiling. To a degree I understand that. But in this case, I can see Zimmerman's point of view. It doesn't make him right, but I can see justification for his feeling that way.

That any black person walking in the neighborhood that George Zimmerman personally does not know is automatically suspicious simply because the person is black is completely ridiculous. Blows my mind, in fact.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

imo, they should not decide whether there is enough evidence to bring the case to trial based on public outrage or backlash. that is not what our justice system stands for.

i also would like to know why they didn't feel there was enough evidence to at least investigate further. the only thing i can thing of is they have witness testimony, other than zimmerman, that backs up zimmerman's claim. i can't believe they wouldn't proceed based solely on zimmerman's claims. then again...stranger things have happened.

I think that's what everyone really wants to know. What were the details and the process behind that decision.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

My GUESS would be that there is something in the paramedics report to corroborate what Zimmerman had told police. I think that needs to be released at this point. Did he sustain the injuries stated in the police report and according to Zimmerman? Or not?

That could be. It could also be that under the Stand Your Ground Law they didn't have the basis for a conviction. Which would be legitimate, legally speaking, in Florida. If that's the case, I would think that could sway public opinion in Florida against the "Stand Your Ground Laws".

 

[christiefan915]

No, actually I think Yurt is being fair minded and objective. There's not a whole lot of hard evidence to evaluate in this case. There's Zimmermans side of the story and a police report that doesn't really tell a whole hell of a lot. Alls we really know for a fact is that Zimmerman provoked a confrontation and a confrontaion did occur in which Trayvon was fatally shot. Other than that, we don't know a hell of a lot of the details or facts.

My concern is that Zimmerman did provoce a confrontation and a death resulted. I think Justice would indicate that he be charged with manslaughter and let a Jury determine his innocence or guilt and not a States Attourney. That was a big mistake by the States Atty to advise this, IMHO. Secondarily, I would like to know if the Stand Your Ground law had a direct affect that contributed directly to this killing or the decision not to file manslaughter charges. If so, that's a law that's broken and needs to be fixed or repealed. Thirdly, I want to know if in any manner at all, were the actions taken by Zimmerman or the police involve racial profiling or discrimination. I feel fairly comfortable that the police are probably not guilty of racial profiling or discrimination based on how the investigation has proceeded to this point.

I don't see yurt doing anything except argue with the people who defend Martin. The righties keep saying we're not being fair to Zimmerman and that what we write about Martin is just supposition, but Martin can't speak for himself because he's dead. Somebody has to give voice to concerns about what really happened and we're sure as hell not getting the full and complete story from Zimmerman.

My problem with all this is the same as yours, that Zimmerman provoked the confrontation. This major detail is being shunted aside or ignored by the Zimmerman defenders. Martin didn't flip his t-shirt against the windshield or do anything to cause Zimmerman to leave his vehicle, and this isn't something I made up, it's in the 911 call. The entire incident was initiated and ended by Zimmerman, no matter what happened in between.

I have a teenaged son. I've taught him since babyhood what to do if he's approached by a stranger, and I believe this is what most parents do. We have "block parents" here and kids are taught to run to those houses if something occurs and they don't feel safe. If someone in a car or on foot is following my kids, or even the other kids in the neighborhood, they'd better have a damned good reason for doing so. We have a still-unsolved case here of a man in a white van following local kids and trying to lure them into the vehicle. At this point I have zero sympathy for Zimmerman and that's unlikely to change without some new, damning evidence coming out.
[h=1]Identifying the Owner of the White Van Stalking our Children in Pittsburgh[/h]