Letter showing Pope Pius XII had detailed information from German Jesuit about Nazi

[NiftyNiblick]

Why can’t humans replace religion with science, you can believe in science and still have morals and awe in the Universe.

One person's awe is obviously another person's disgust.
I replaced my religion with secular humanism,
and I don't regret it.

The universe, however, remained tragically flawed anyway.
A shit show if we're being honest.
My fairly solid morals force me to acknowledge that.

 

[Cypress]

I'm not an expert on the guy. The documentary I saw on him didn't make it seem like a black and white issue where the pope was pure evil.

Pius seems to have lacked moral fortitude to openly condemn the Nazis. On the other hand, the Vatican and Catholics in Europe gave shelter assistance to Jews and other refugees. A mixed legacy probably.

Catholics were also victims of the Nazis. Thousands of Polish and German Catholic priests were executed.


In principle, I don't see the need to paint a whole religion as reprehensible because of one guy.

I don't think Hitler and Stalin represent the irreligious and atheist. Hitler was famously irreligious and Stalin was militantly atheist.

 

[Phantasmal]

I'm not an expert on the guy. The documentary I saw on him didn't make it seem like a black and white issue where the pope was pure evil.

Pius seems to have lacked moral fortitude to openly condemn the Nazis. On the other hand, the Vatican and Catholics in Europe gave shelter assistance to Jews and other refugees. A mixed legacy probably.

Catholics were also victims of the Nazis. Thousands of Polish and German Catholic priests were executed.


In principle, I don't see the need to paint a whole religion as reprehensible because of one guy.

I don't think Hitler and Stalin represent the irreligious and atheist. Hitler was famously irreligious and Stalin was militantly atheist.

What individual parishes and churches were doing does not abstain the head of the church from speaking out against the atrocities; like it did not excuse them from hiding the pedophilia because the church does so much good for children, but that is just my opinion.

 

[Cypress]

What individual parishes and churches were doing does not abstain the head of the church from speaking out against the atrocities; like it did not excuse them from hiding the pedophilia because the church does so much good for children, but that is just my opinion.

I'm not the expert on it, so I'll take your word that Pope Pius was evil.

I think much evil has been done in the name of religion, capitalism, atheism, science, colonialism, communism. If Pope Pius was an enabler of crimes against humanity, I'll leave it to the historical scholars to sort out.

 

[Phantasmal]

I'm not the expert on it, so I'll take your word that Pope Pius was evil.

I think much evil has been done in the name of religion, capitalism, atheism, science, colonialism, communism. If Pope Pius was an enabler of crimes against humanity, I'll leave it to the historical scholars to sort out.

I’m not stating he was evil, I’m sure the man had some redeeming qualities, but I feel he could have done more for the Jewish plight by speaking out and condemning the Nazis.

 

[Cypress]

I’m not stating he was evil, I’m sure the man had some redeeming qualities, but I feel he could have done more for the Jewish plight by speaking out and condemning the Nazis.

A seriously flawed religious leader, okay that seems reasonable.


I thought there was a story about the Vatican serving as a refuge for Jews, but maybe I am misremembering.

 

[Margot]

I am of the mind to consider WWI and WWII as one war with a pause rather than as two wars.

The Grim Reaper double dipped!

 

[saltydancin]

I am sure there was something you wanted me to consider there, Salty...but I cannot for the life of me figure out what it is.

I've read your comment over four times...and I just cannot understand what you are saying. If you want to give it another try, I will respond.

Another cross conditioned way beyond therapy where forgiving themselves in avoidance - acceptance of wrong is rite as Russia's Orthodox Church rootin' tooin' Putin extermination of Ukrainians as Nazis, Catholic Church brokering Mengele "Angel of Death" mass exterminations in exchange for Islam oil for Nazi Germany and this Christain Nation SCOTUS Rehnquist Fourth Reich July 9/11 George Washington University Hospital Washington, D.C. born USA citizens are Islam precedent over Eisenhower's "Never Again" where baseball is avoidance....

 

[Hawkeye10]

I am of the mind to consider WWI and WWII as one war with a pause rather than as two wars.

Your thoughts on this matter have nothing to do with my point.

Are you avoiding my point?

 

[Ross Dolan]

I’m not stating he was evil, I’m sure the man had some redeeming qualities, but I feel he could have done more for the Jewish plight by speaking out and condemning the Nazis.

As I said...he might well have added to the woes of the world by speaking out more forcefully. But, that seems to be a position that many want to deny.

Pius was holed up in The Vatican. The entire of The Vatican could have been reduced to rubble in just a few hours if the Nazis wanted to do it.

This is Monte Cassino before the war.

This is what it looked like after allied assaults.

Pius was not evil. He was, by far, not perfect...and had spent a lot of his time as Cardinal in Germany...as Nuncio.

It is my guess that he did what he thought was best for the Church...and for the Catholics and Jews still living in Germany.

 

[saltydancin]

Did you lose your Ovaltine decoder ring, Frank?

So more avoidance in acceptance of The Catholic Church having a long history of unspeakable atrocities, where brokering Islam oil for the Nazi Germany war machine Holocaust which in time will obviously be decoder ring found to have brokered Islam 9/11 "death to the infidels" for this Christain Nation thieving US Constitution Bill of Rights arsonists Christiananality pedophilia patriot act....

 

[NiftyNiblick]

So more avoidance in acceptance of The Catholic Church having a long history of unspeakable atrocities, where brokering Islam oil for the Nazi Germany war machine Holocaust which in time will obviously be decoder ring found to have brokered Islam 9/11 "death to the infidels" for this Christain Nation thieving US Constitution Bill of Rights arsonists Christiananality pedophilia patriot act....

I'm not avoiding anything, salty.

Somewhere in your unique prose
some reality may very well be hiding.

Unfortunately, you make your imaginative sentence structure the main story.

Essentially, you bury the lede. Really, really deep!!!!

I see where that could be fun, though.
Don't stop if it's fun.
Too few of us have enough fun.

 

[saltydancin]

I'm not avoiding anything, salty.

Somewhere in your unique prose
some reality may very well be hiding.

Unfortunately, you make your imaginative sentence structure the main story.

Essentially, you bury the lede. Really, really deep!!!!

I see where that could be fun, though.
Don't stop if it's fun.
Too few of us have enough fun.

Seems as if Russia's Orthodox Church rootin' tootin' Putin extermination of "Nazi" Ukraine tactics is as good as this Christain Nation SCOTUS Rehnquist extermination of "Islam" George Washington University Hospital Washington, D.C. born USA citizens as "one nation under God with equal justice under law" in that Catholic Church Knights of Columbus "serve the Pope or die" interpretation...