Libertarians...Quite Possibly the Stupidest People in the World....

Dude, I have repeated multiple times what I think Paul's chances are, i.e., slim and none. You are just so fucking absurd and pathetic that you continue to pretend I have said something else. I have played along to ridicule you a few times, but you seem to be the only one that did not get it.

Oh I get it alright .. you're a Paultard and don't have a clue what you're talking about.

What then, was so "absurd and pathetic" about my comment that Paul is a 2%-er and only gets about 6% in his own state .. especially given that you agree that he has no fucking chance at being nominated?
 
Friedman did denounce Pinochet.

The truth is that a bunch of chilian economists studied at the University of Chicago and were tought by Friedman and the others of that school. They were in charge of the economic policys of Chilie under Pinochet. NOT FRIEDMAN. They were called the "chicago boys" and they helped turn the economic system from hyper inflation and abject poverty into a thriving economy. The only thing Friedman ever supported were the economic changes.

Friedman also gave lectures in Chilie as he did in London, China, India and many other countries around the world in that time.

Why don't people blame Friedman for China?
 
So goddamn what?

It's "what he believed" .. as if that's his get out of hell card.

I seriously question what you have added to this conversation other than unproven theories about what a "free market" will lead to .. which in fact, it HAS NEVER LEAD TO .. including in Chile.

How about operating in the real world and explain how Friedman's support of one of the most brutal dictators the world has ever seen led to the "end of authoritarian government" .. when in fact, the pressure of the international human rights community led to his downfall .. the downfall of that authoritarian government that Friedman supported.


Yes please, I would like to see this explanation too.
 
Bingo. Amazingly predictive.

Yeah, it's almost as if I had called Charles Manson a murderer, and you had asked what makes him a murderer, and Dano said, "my guess is she's going to claim Sharon Tate" and then you all gathered aroudn him and gazed in wide wonder at the joy you had found in such a fucking genius.

Yeah you can start in Chile, and you can read some books, I'd recommend "Empire's workshop" by Gregg Grandin to start with.
 
Oh I get it alright .. you're a Paultard and don't have a clue what you're talking about.

What then, was so "absurd and pathetic" about my comment that Paul is a 2%-er and only gets about 6% in his own state .. especially given that you agree that he has no fucking chance at being nominated?

The fact that you continue to present it as if I believe Paul will win.

BTW, I have seen polls where he is up to 5%.

http://thepage.time.com/2007/11/11/new-nh-poll-shows-clinton-slippage/
 
You on the right amaze me. Pinochet was one of the most brutal dictators of the last half of the 20th century. He used the military to overthrow a democratically elected leader. Over 20,000 people were imprisoned without trial and torture was one of his basic tools for repression. He outlawed political parties. thousands of people were "disappeared" because they opposed his totalitarian regime. But he was a great guy cause he implemented economic reform that created greater poverty than existed BEFORE he took over. Dano do you REALLY support a government that kills its people to maintain power so long as it lets the markets alone? The problem is that Friedman claimed to be a great supporter of individual freedom as well as economic freedom but he backed a man that was a brutal totalitarian. Pinochet was in direct opposition to Friedman's beliefs in individual freedom. If you supported Pinochet you supported EVERYTHING he did because his iron fisted rule is what ensured the market economy that Chile had.

Sorry they preempted all your "BS" by saying "Chile" first Soc,.
 
Again, simple ignorance of Friedman's philosophy leads people to pretend that he was not fighting authoritarianism with his promotion of a free market when it was one of the main points of his philosophy that freer markets lead inevitably to less authoritarian governments....

It is simply ignorance and deliberate misconstruction of what Friedman believed and stood for. And a wish to distract from the result of actual decline in authoritarianism associated with the market he promoted.

No he wasnt' fighting authoritariasm, in fact, authoritarianism was needed in order to implement his policies on an unwilling public, do you get that? They were fucking unwilling, got it? They didn't want it. It had to be forced on them.

He knew it. It was not about authoritarianism, it was about religion. The religion of the free market, and they killed for it.

Educate yourself before you dare to ever call anyone ignorant on this topic. You are protecting and defending a dirty, mass murderer.
 
So goddamn what?

It's "what he believed" .. as if that's his get out of hell card.

I seriously question what you have added to this conversation other than unproven theories about what a "free market" will lead to .. which in fact, it HAS NEVER LEAD TO .. including in Chile.

How about operating in the real world and explain how Friedman's support of one of the most brutal dictators the world has ever seen led to the "end of authoritarian government" .. when in fact, the pressure of the international human rights community led to his downfall .. the downfall of that authoritarian government that Friedman supported.
Except it did in Chile, it led to the democratically elected government taking over in 1990.

I know it makes you uncomfortable to realize that he fought for freedom in the only way he knew how. More than just running around saying, "Bad! Bad!" he actually took action on his belief, did what he could based on what he believed.

As I said, dismissing his belief and what he did because of it is only a disingenuous pretense in the hopes you can get others to believe he worked FOR the authoritarian regime and not, as he believed, against it with real action.
 
No he wasnt' fighting authoritariasm, in fact, authoritarianism was needed in order to implement his policies on an unwilling public, do you get that? They were fucking unwilling, got it? They didn't want it. It had to be forced on them.

He knew it. It was not about authoritarianism, it was about religion. The religion of the free market, and they killed for it.

Educate yourself before you dare to ever call anyone ignorant on this topic. You are protecting and defending a dirty, mass murderer.
And you are pretending his belief wasn't there and promoting a belief that is unrealistic according to what he promoted and believed throughout a lifetime. He believed that a free market leads to less authoritarianism. He did not promote the government he believed, and the results inevitably showed, that he was debasing that form of government through the only means he knew it could be done without direct military intervention from this government of ours.

Now, had he staged the coup and put the military in charge, yeah. I'd be with you. But he did not. And I clearly was more educated than the pretense of "he was endorsing their government" idiocy.

One must deliberately ignore his philosophy and teachings in order to pretend he supported authoritarianism through free markets.
 
Except it did in Chile, it led to the democratically elected government taking over in 1990.

I know it makes you uncomfortable to realize that he fought for freedom in the only way he knew how. More than just running around saying, "Bad! Bad!" he actually took action on his belief, did what he could based on what he believed.

As I said, dismissing his belief and what he did because of it is only a disingenuous pretense in the hopes you can get others to believe he worked FOR the authoritarian regime and not, as he believed, against it with real action.

You are disingenuous to claim you knew what his beliefs were. We can look only to his actions, which caused the death, and horrific torture of thousands of human beings.

You don't know what his beliefs were. You know what he said they were. If someone you loved had been tortured I wonder how you'd feel about Friedman, who forced his policies on an unwilling population. They didn't want them. They disagree with your free markets. And they died and were tortured for it.

It led to shit. You have some nerve making this claim.
 
You are disingenuous to claim you knew what his beliefs were. We can look only to his actions, which caused the death, and horrific torture of thousands of human beings.

You don't know what his beliefs were. You know what he said they were. If someone you loved had been tortured I wonder how you'd feel about Friedman, who forced his policies on an unwilling population. They didn't want them. They disagree with your free markets. And they died and were tortured for it.

It led to shit. You have some nerve making this claim.
I didn't have to look far to find his beliefs Darla, he wrote many books about them. You are disingenuous if you pretend he didn't, and ignorant to boot.

You have some nerve pretending that all of his previous works didn't exist and that I am somehow "making up" his philosophy. Either that or your are ignorant and promoting such inane beliefs without knowing the subject matter at hand.
 
And you are pretending his belief wasn't there and promoting a belief that is unrealistic according to what he promoted and believed throughout a lifetime. He believed that a free market leads to less authoritarianism. He did not promote the government he believed, and the results inevitably showed, that he was debasing that form of government through the only means he knew it could be done without direct military intervention from this government of ours.

You think he believed that, but you have no evidence of it. What we do know is that an entire citizenry didn’t want his free market, and he made them take it on pain of death and torture.
Wow that is some freedom. What a guy. What a hero.
He’s in hell. Where he belongs. You better read something other than libertarian bs, you truly look stupider on this thread than I have ever seen you look.
 
I didn't have to look far to find his beliefs Darla, he wrote many books about them. You are disingenuous if you pretend he didn't, and ignorant to boot.

I don't give a flying fuck what he wrote, Hitler wrote books filled with BS too.

I look to his actions, and the results.

Many thousands dead and horribly tortured, because they disagreed with you, Dano and RS on what kind of economic system they wanted.

and you call that freedom. Oh ho, if the tables ever turn.
 
You think he believed that, but you have no evidence of it. What we do know is that an entire citizenry didn’t want his free market, and he made them take it on pain of death and torture.
Wow that is some freedom. What a guy. What a hero.
He’s in hell. Where he belongs. You better read something other than libertarian bs, you truly look stupider on this thread than I have ever seen you look.
Bull I have no evidence, his various writings and speeches make it clear. Repeating this doesn't make it any more realistic. I'd have to have not read any of his stuff to be this ignorant of his belief.
 
Yeah, it's all pretty much horseshit. He did, in fact, denounce Pinochet.

http://libertyunbound.com/archive/2007_02/ramsey-friedman.html

‘I do not regard it evil for an economist to render technical economic advice to the Chilean government to help end the plague of inflation, any more than I would regard it as evil for a physician to give technical medical advice to the Chilean government to end a medical plague.’

http://www.reason.com/news/show/117278.html

While there, Friedman did have one meeting with Pinochet, for less than an hour. Pinochet asked Friedman to write him a letter about his judgments on what Chilean economic policy should be, which Friedman did . He advocated quick and severe cuts in government spending and inflation, as well as instituting more open international trade policies—and to “provide for the relief of any cases of real hardship and severe distress among the poorest classes.” He did not choose this as an opportunity to upbraid Pinochet for any of his repressive policies, and many of Friedman’s admirers, including me, would have felt better if he had.

But that was the extent of his involvement with the Chilean regime—and it fit with a recurring pattern in Friedman’s career of advising with an even hand all who would listen to him. It was not a sign of approval of military authoritarianism. Friedman, in defending himself against accusations of complicity with or approval of Pinochet, noted in a 1975 letter to the University of Chicago school newspaper that he “has never heard complaints” about giving aid and comfort to the communist governments to which he had spoken, and that “I approve of none of these authoritarian regimes—neither the Communist regimes of Russia and Yugoslavia nor the military juntas of Chile and Brazil. But I believe I can learn from observing them and that, insofar as my personal analysis of their economic situation enables them to improve their economic performance, that is likely to promote not retard a movement toward greater liberalism and freedom.”


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/minitextlo/int_miltonfriedman.html

INTERVIEWER: When you were down in Chile you spoke to some students in Santiago. In your own words, can you tell me about that speech in Santiago?

MILTON FRIEDMAN: Sure. While I was in Santiago, Chile, I gave a talk at the Catholic University of Chile. Now, I should explain that the University of Chicago had had an arrangement for years with the Catholic University of Chile, whereby they send students to us and we send people down there to help them reorganize their economics department. And I gave a talk at the Catholic University of Chile under the title "The Fragility of Freedom." The essence of the talk was that freedom was a very fragile thing and that what destroyed it more than anything else was central control; that in order to maintain freedom, you had to have free markets, and that free markets would work best if you had political freedom. So it was essentially an anti-totalitarian talk. (amused)

INTERVIEWER: So you envisaged, therefore, that the free markets ultimately would undermine Pinochet?

MILTON FRIEDMAN: Oh, absolutely. The emphasis of that talk was that free markets would undermine political centralization and political control. And incidentally, I should say that I was not in Chile as a guest of the government. I was in Chile as the guest of a private organization.
 
Yeah, it's all pretty much horseshit. He did, in fact, denounce Pinochet.

http://libertyunbound.com/archive/2007_02/ramsey-friedman.html

‘I do not regard it evil for an economist to render technical economic advice to the Chilean government to help end the plague of inflation, any more than I would regard it as evil for a physician to give technical medical advice to the Chilean government to end a medical plague.’

http://www.reason.com/news/show/117278.html

While there, Friedman did have one meeting with Pinochet, for less than an hour. Pinochet asked Friedman to write him a letter about his judgments on what Chilean economic policy should be, which Friedman did . He advocated quick and severe cuts in government spending and inflation, as well as instituting more open international trade policies—and to “provide for the relief of any cases of real hardship and severe distress among the poorest classes.” He did not choose this as an opportunity to upbraid Pinochet for any of his repressive policies, and many of Friedman’s admirers, including me, would have felt better if he had.

But that was the extent of his involvement with the Chilean regime—and it fit with a recurring pattern in Friedman’s career of advising with an even hand all who would listen to him. It was not a sign of approval of military authoritarianism. Friedman, in defending himself against accusations of complicity with or approval of Pinochet, noted in a 1975 letter to the University of Chicago school newspaper that he “has never heard complaints” about giving aid and comfort to the communist governments to which he had spoken, and that “I approve of none of these authoritarian regimes—neither the Communist regimes of Russia and Yugoslavia nor the military juntas of Chile and Brazil. But I believe I can learn from observing them and that, insofar as my personal analysis of their economic situation enables them to improve their economic performance, that is likely to promote not retard a movement toward greater liberalism and freedom.”


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/minitextlo/int_miltonfriedman.html

INTERVIEWER: When you were down in Chile you spoke to some students in Santiago. In your own words, can you tell me about that speech in Santiago?

MILTON FRIEDMAN: Sure. While I was in Santiago, Chile, I gave a talk at the Catholic University of Chile. Now, I should explain that the University of Chicago had had an arrangement for years with the Catholic University of Chile, whereby they send students to us and we send people down there to help them reorganize their economics department. And I gave a talk at the Catholic University of Chile under the title "The Fragility of Freedom." The essence of the talk was that freedom was a very fragile thing and that what destroyed it more than anything else was central control; that in order to maintain freedom, you had to have free markets, and that free markets would work best if you had political freedom. So it was essentially an anti-totalitarian talk. (amused)

INTERVIEWER: So you envisaged, therefore, that the free markets ultimately would undermine Pinochet?

MILTON FRIEDMAN: Oh, absolutely. The emphasis of that talk was that free markets would undermine political centralization and political control. And incidentally, I should say that I was not in Chile as a guest of the government. I was in Chile as the guest of a private organization.
Yeah, but I am just "making up" his beliefs....

Frick, ignorant people will spout anything they read. Ignoring his works such as "Capitalism and Freedom" that outright states what I have said he believed to pretend that I have "no way of knowing what he believed", it also ignores what he stated after the fact to pretend he was a "murderer".
 
Bull I have no evidence, his various writings and speeches make it clear. Repeating this doesn't make it any more realistic. I'd have to have not read any of his stuff to be this ignorant of his belief.

His writings are evidence of what he wanted you to believe his beliefs were, and nothing more.

The dead bodies say something different. I think they speak louder. You think what you are comfortable thinking.

I happen to know it's BS, but it's still your prerogative. Certainly you shouldn't be tortured for it. In front of a class room, taught by the school of chicago boys.

Which happened.
 
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