Libertarians...Quite Possibly the Stupidest People in the World....

Darla said:
He actually believed not that freedom of markets would lead to democratic freedoms but that they were all of a whole. He thought that the definition of economic freedom was freedom in all things. But the real killer for Friedman is that in every case where his economic programs have been instituted the people have had to be repressed first. There is not one case where the people have willingly accepted the Friedman program. In fact Chile is only the tip of the iceberg. You can cite Argentina where The Ford Plant contained torture cells in its basement in order to more quickly locate and disrupt union activities on the plant floor. Even more damning is that in every country where the Friedman reforms have been instituted the people have either thrown off the original reforms or are worse off today than they were when the reforms were instituted.

With that I'm done with this. I really don't see why I am responsible for educating dummies and getting aggravated by their stupidity.

Friedman is not the only one with blood on his hands. And you guys want to bring this shit there. This "freedom".

Yeah, no thanks.
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Nothing to back this up? You offered bs on Chile, now we are supposed to believe this with no support?

How was Friedman responsible for the Ford plant in Argentina???
 
Darla said:
Read a history book on this part of the world, Rs.

Get back to me if you ever do.
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Why should we trust you Darla, you claimed that Cato was majority funded by corporations and it ended up being like 2% of their donations. Now you end up wrong here again.

You just make up shit - that is what you do. You are lost to leftwing hate that you can't differentiate action from ideas.
 
blackascoal said:
Perhaps this can help answer your question and give you a clearer reading of that history .. a history that sounds incredibly familiar to current events.

"A month after Friedman's visit, the Chilean junta announced that inflation would be stopped "at any cost." The regime cut government spending twenty-seven percent, practically shuttered the national mint, and set fire to bundles of escudos. The state divested from the banking system and deregulated finance, including interest rates. It slashed import tariffs, freed prices on over 2000 products, and removed restrictions against foreign investments. Pinochet pulled Chile out of a number of alliances with neighboring countries intended to promote regional industrialization, turning his country into a gateway for the introduction of cheap goods into Latin America.

Tens of thousands of public workers lost their jobs as the government auctioned off, in what amounted to a spectacular transfer of wealth to the private sector, over four hundred state industries. Multinationals were not only granted the right to repatriate one hundred percent of their profits, but were given guaranteed exchange rates to help them do so. In order to build investor confidence, the escudo was fixed to the dollar. Within four years, nearly thirty percent of all property expropriated not just under Allende but under a previous Alliance for Progress land reform was returned to previous owners. New laws treated labor like any other "free" commodity, sweeping away four decades of progressive union legislation. Health care was privatized, as was the public pension fund.

GNP plummeted thirteen percent, industrial production fell 28 percent, and purchasing power collapsed to forty percent of its 1970 level. One national business after another went bankrupt. Unemployment soared.

Yet by 1978 the economy rebounded, expanding thirty-two percent between 1978 and 1981. Though salary levels remained close to twenty percent below what they were a decade previously, per capita income began to climb again. Perhaps even a better indicator of progress, torture and extrajudicial executions began to taper off. With hindsight, however, it is now clear that the Chicago economists, despite the credit they received for three years of economic growth, had set Chile on the road to near collapse.

The rebound of the economy was a function of the liberalization of the financial system and massive foreign investment. That investment, it turns out, led to a speculative binge, monopolization of the banking system, and heavy borrowing. The deluge of foreign capital did allow the fixed exchange rate to be maintained for a short period. But sharp increases in private debt * rising from $2 billion in 1978 to over $14 billion in 1982 -- put unsustainable pressure on Chile's currency. Pegged as it was to the appreciating US dollar, the value of the escudo was kept artificially high, leading to a flood of cheap imports. While consumers took advantage of liberalized credit to purchase TVs, cars, and other high-ticket items, savings shrank, debt increased, exports fell, and the trade deficit ballooned.

In 1982 things fell apart. Copper prices plummeted, accelerating Chile's balance of trade deficit. GDP plunged fifteen percent, while industrial production rapidly contracted. Bankruptcies tripled and unemployment hit 30 percent. Despite his pledge to hold firm, Pinochet devalued the escudo, devastating poor Chileans who had either availed themselves to liberalized credit to borrow in dollars or who held their savings in escudos. The Central Bank lost forty-five percent of its reserves, while the private banking system collapsed. The crisis forced the state, dusting off laws still on the books from the Allende period, to take over nearly seventy percent of the banking system and reimpose controls on finance, industry, prices and wages. Turning to the IMF for a bailout, Pinochet extended a public guarantee to repay foreign creditors and banks.

---

Today, Pinochet is under house arrest for his brand of "shock therapy," and Friedman is dead. But the world they helped usher in survives, in increasingly grotesque form. What was considered extreme in Chile in 1975 has now become the norm in the US today: a society where the market defines the totality of human fulfillment, and a government that tortures in the name of freedom."
http://www.counterpunch.org/grandin11172006.html

You really should read the entire article.

There is your "free market"
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LOL, yeah I am sure Friedman was behind fixing the Chilean dollar. Fucking ridiculous.
 
Darla said:
Read a history book on this part of the world, Rs.

Get back to me if you ever do.
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Okay, which one addresses Friedman ordering the murder of people? If I find it's not there, just as your claims on Chile evaporated, will you then admit you are a liar?
 
TheDanold said:
Why should we trust you Darla, you claimed that Cato was majority funded by corporations and it ended up being like 2% of their donations. Now you end up wrong here again.

You just make up shit - that is what you do. You are lost to leftwing hate that you can't differentiate action from ideas.
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Corporations and ceos and the rich, and it certainly is majority funded by them.

I didn't ask you to trust me. I said it's not my job to educate you, read a history book. You won't. Because you don't want to know. This is about what you believe, not about what you know. to guys like you the free market is a religion. I get that.

the bill in dead bodies and tortured human beings, is a problem for me though. That's why I'm not religious.
 
RStringfield said:
Okay, which one addresses Friedman ordering the murder of people? If I find it's not there, just as your claims on Chile evaporated, will you then admit you are a liar?
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No one said he ordered it, he is responsible for it. His own students, which he sent to these parts of the world, taught them how to do it.

I don't care ifyou think I'm a liar. I'm aware of the history of that part of the world. You are aware that free markets make you feel good.
 
Darla said:
Read a history book on this part of the world, Rs.

Get back to me if you ever do.
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Read an economics book. Any one that would blame Friedman for a nation's economic policy of fixing their dollar has not one clue. Then you take that and claim that Friedman is responsible for non-economic policies. Absurd.
 
Darla said:
No one said he ordered it, he is responsible for it. His own students, which he sent to these parts of the world, taught them how to do it.

I don't care ifyou think I'm a liar. I'm aware of the history of that part of the world. You are aware that free markets make you feel good.
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Show us one piece of evidence that he taught his students to kill people. That is laughable at best.
 
Let's also put an end to the bullshit claim that Friedman never backed Pinochet and his "shock therapy" or his military juanta ...

The military junta offered "more room for individual initiative and for a private sphere of life" and thus a greater "chance of a return to a democratic society." ... Chile's present difficulties, [Friedman] argued, "were due almost entirely to the forty-year trend toward collectivism, socialism and the welfare state . . . a course that would lead to coercion rather than freedom." .. Milton Friedman

May you roast in hell.

Here is Friedman self-immolating on the pyre of hypocrisy. Here is Friedman's principle of the interlocking of political and economic liberty exposed as a fraud. Friedman's economic liberty turned out to be that associated with the elite beneficiaries of authoritarian monopoly capitalism.

His "free market" experiment ended in absolute failure, and he both praised and supported the horror of Pinochet in the name of "free marketism"
 
I hear Gore taught people to kill and torture all in the name of saving the environment. I am not going to provide any evidence to support this though... I will simply act like a petulent child and say it over and over again until my opponents get annoyed and leave and then I will proclaim that I won the argument and that my case is proven.
 
RStringfield said:
Read an economics book. Any one that would blame Friedman for a nation's economic policy of fixing their dollar has not one clue. Then you take that and claim that Friedman is responsible for non-economic policies. Absurd.
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The economic collapse came from two sources. The fixing of the Chilean dollar. And the deregulation of the banking industry.
 
Superfreak said:
I hear Gore taught people to kill and torture all in the name of saving the environment. I am not going to provide any evidence to support this though... I will simply act like a petulent child and say it over and over again until my opponents get annoyed and leave and then I will proclaim that I won the argument and that my case is proven.
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That would work if Gore and his minions were actively advising the most brutal regime in the western hemisphere, but he isn't so it doesn't.
 
But Friedman did not operate in a vacuum. He knew as EVERYONE ELSE did that Pinochet was a totalitarian. But since he was not a collectivist Socialist totalitarian it was OK. The People of Chile did not WANT Friedman's form of economy. They spoke in an election and Allende won a very slim plurality of the vote. But I will ask again cause I think it got lost after my first post. How many killed, tortured and disappeared people are acceptable to get to a free market economy so that the government will stop killing torturing and disappearing people?
 
Superfreak said:
I hear Gore taught people to kill and torture all in the name of saving the environment. I am not going to provide any evidence to support this though... I will simply act like a petulent child and say it over and over again until my opponents get annoyed and leave and then I will proclaim that I won the argument and that my case is proven.
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Did you rent a drunken chimpanzee to write your posts today?

So now you are saying that people were not disappeared, murdered and tortured in Chile, or in any of these other countries? Is this correct, chimp?
 
Darla said:
No one said he ordered it, he is responsible for it. His own students, which he sent to these parts of the world, taught them how to do it.
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Sent them? Taught them, what? How to torture people?

Friedman is now responsible for the acts of his students. Your smear is getting more and more desperate and absurd.
 
Superfreak said:
Show us one piece of evidence that he taught his students to kill people. That is laughable at best.
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Oh look the drunken chimpanzee that is writing SF's posts today, got it wrong again.

His students, taught classes in places like Chile, where prisoners were brought in and tortured in front of the class, to teach how to best torture someone.

They were known as the chicago boys.
 
RStringfield said:
Sent them? Taught them, what? How to torture people?

Friedman is now responsible for the acts of his students. Your smear is getting more and more desperate and absurd.
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Of course you are the same person who believes that Ron Paul is not responsible for things appearing in his own news letter, under his own name.

So you know, your credibility on this sort of thing? Low. Very low. In fact, you must be the easiest lay on this board RS.

you'll believe anything man.
 
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