looking for liberal input

[SR_]

I was curious to read some liberal points of view concerning this new liberal induced stratospheric rise in our projected deficits and publicly held debt.

As jobless claims keep rising, our banks have been nationalized, with the talk of ever increasing taxation, government run health care options, etc...

Is everything working out like you had hoped? Congress has been in your control since 2007... you now have the White House... we've never been in worse shape since the great depression, unemployment hasnt been this high in 25 years... and it looks as though everyone is forcasting the situation to get worse.

I was just curious to know what the left thought about the future? Higher taxation? Larger government deficits? .... is this really what you wanted?

SR

 

[uscitizen]

No we never wanted Bush.

 

[Onceler]

You seem to be venting & disguising it as a question. The question itself is a bit one-sided in its characterization of not just the future, but how we got here. It paints some aspects of the liberal agenda in the usual right-wing colors for them, and ignores others that are moving forward as we speak.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with the 1st 6 months of 2009 in general, and some of the shifting of priorities that have taken place (and, I take it by your post, you are not in agreement that Obama is merely Bush III). I'm also much more optimistic than you seem to be about longer-term prospects, and also have a different interpretation as to the best way out of this economic situation.

 

[SR_]

No we never wanted Bush.

Bush is no longer President.

This may be hard... but.. you might need to accept it.

Want to try to answer the question?

SR

 

[SR_]

You seem to be venting & disguising it as a question. The question itself is a bit one-sided in its characterization of not just the future, but how we got here. It paints some aspects of the liberal agenda in the usual right-wing colors for them, and ignores others that are moving forward as we speak.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with the 1st 6 months of 2009 in general, and some of the shifting of priorities that have taken place (and, I take it by your post, you are not in agreement that Obama is merely Bush III). I'm also much more optimistic than you seem to be about longer-term prospects, and also have a different interpretation as to the best way out of this economic situation.

Thats what im interested in hearing about.

Id also point out that nothing is being "painted"... we have in fact had tax increases with publicly acknowledged proposals to keep raising taxes. Um... nothing being painted as government run health care.. thats being publicly proposed as we speak by the President and the Speaker of the House. We just passed the largest budget in the history of the US, in addition to largest INCREASE in spending and in the deficit in the history of the US (in fact the entire history of the US combined).

This isnt being painted, this is happening for real, right now... jobless claims are data posted, its not a matter of it being "painted" or being imagined.

Im just curious as you seem to be an American, and a liberal, if this is inspiring you and pleasing you...

SR

 

[uscitizen]

Bush is no longer President.

This may be hard... but.. you might need to accept it.

Want to try to answer the question?

SR

This entire situation was not created since 2007. If you think it was then intelligent discussion is not possible with you.

 

[Don Quixote]

I was curious to read some liberal points of view concerning this new liberal induced stratospheric rise in our projected deficits and publicly held debt.

As jobless claims keep rising, our banks have been nationalized, with the talk of ever increasing taxation, government run health care options, etc...

Is everything working out like you had hoped? Congress has been in your control since 2007... you now have the White House... we've never been in worse shape since the great depression, unemployment hasnt been this high in 25 years... and it looks as though everyone is forcasting the situation to get worse.

I was just curious to know what the left thought about the future? Higher taxation? Larger government deficits? .... is this really what you wanted?

SR

just cleaning up the mess created by a conservative pres...

as for banks being nationalize, as i recall that means taking the banks and their assets for government use as opposed to bailing them out because they were grossly mismanaged by criminals

then there is the 3 trillion war with over 4,300 dead and over 10,000 maimed with others wounded that bush started to get the man that tried to kill poppy and whose oil his buddies could try to loot

oh those liberals

 

[Onceler]

Thats what im interested in hearing about.

Id also point out that nothing is being "painted"... we have in fact had tax increases with publicly acknowledged proposals to keep raising taxes. Um... nothing being painted as government run health care.. thats being publicly proposed as we speak by the President and the Speaker of the House. We just passed the largest budget in the history of the US, in addition to largest INCREASE in spending and in the deficit in the history of the US (in fact the entire history of the US combined).

This isnt being painted, this is happening for real, right now... jobless claims are data posted, its not a matter of it being "painted" or being imagined.

Im just curious as you seem to be an American, and a liberal, if this is inspiring you and pleasing you...

SR

SR, I know you to be fairly intelligent; I am sure that you do not ascribe the current unemployment rate to Obama.

These economic conditions were a long time in the making. Frankly, I was very concerned toward the end of last year & the beginning of this year that we'd see an outright failure of one of the big 3, and the market tumble to a point somewhere below 6,000. I thought we were right on the precipice. Now, no one can really guarantee anything, and we might still go there, but the general CW on things now is that we may be at a turning point, and may actually get out of the recession this year, albeit with slow growth.

Still, to me, that is something of a small miracle, so yes, I'm happy with how it has gone so far.

And I know we could debate all night on what the correct remedy would have been for the economy in the beginning of the year. I'm sure you would favor cutting taxes & other measures normally pushed by conservatives. Me? I saw a business cycle that could have turned into a near-endless downward spiral. Low consumer confidence leading to lower spending, leading to more businesses laying off employees, leading to even lower consumer spending, and so on. I am certain you do not agree with the idea of massive spending to end that cycle, but I think it was vital.

Consider also that the economy lost trillions while it was in the midst of that downward spiral. If the market had gone sub-6,000, we would have lost trillions more. It would have certainly exceeded the amounts that have been put into bailout & stimulus, and these are hopefully things which will end the cycle, and put Americans back to work, thus increasing revenues & essentially paying for themselves.

Again, I don't expect you to agree with this; however, it is not some wild, fringe economic theory. It is one held my many, and it may just be working.

 

[SR_]

This entire situation was not created since 2007. If you think it was then intelligent discussion is not possible with you.

This is something thats hard to explain to a child, but I will attempt it.

As you watch your house burn down, there is a desire to put out the fire. Now, most intelligent people look at the process of putting the fire out, however a dumbass's first priority will be to assign blame and will actually just let the house burn down.

Im not assigning blame to why we're here. It most definitely goes far back beyond any of our modern presidents, but we're here now. We've had almost 3 years of democratic control in the congress (thats the branch responsible for the purse), and 6 months with DRAMATIC programs enacted and lead by our new president.

So with the house on fire... you seem to be the dumbass, when in all reality im asking for an intelligent discussion. As I have said, we HAVE increases in taxation, we HAVE the largest budget ever, the largest deficit ever projected with the largest increase in spending EVER. This has happened in the past 6 months. We have the largest amount of unemployment in last 27 years. And higher taxes are being proposed now, as we speak, larger government programs are being planned for RIGHT NOW, as we speak.

Im asking you, is this what you wanted, are you pleased with the direction we are going in RIGHT NOW. I havent even mentioned Bush, its clear only the dumbass's want to talk about him.

So i think the better question is, is it even possible to have an intelligent discussion with you?

SR

 

[belme1201]

I was curious to read some liberal points of view concerning this new liberal induced stratospheric rise in our projected deficits and publicly held debt.

As jobless claims keep rising, our banks have been nationalized, with the talk of ever increasing taxation, government run health care options, etc...

Is everything working out like you had hoped? Congress has been in your control since 2007... you now have the White House... we've never been in worse shape since the great depression, unemployment hasnt been this high in 25 years... and it looks as though everyone is forcasting the situation to get worse.

I was just curious to know what the left thought about the future? Higher taxation? Larger government deficits? .... is this really what you wanted?

SR

The irony is that it's you guys who think Obama is the Messiah, not his supporters. You expect him to perform a miracle in 5 months undoing what took bush 8 years to destroy and my thought goes beyond fiscally alone.
We haven't yet begun to discover all the bush gang left behind in ruins for others to undo. Where were YOU then?

 

[uscitizen]

Pathetic SR jusr Pathetic

I could not help myself. As if this is the origional SR it was often your response to me in the olden days.

 

[Don Quixote]

This is something thats hard to explain to a child, but I will attempt it.

As you watch your house burn down, there is a desire to put out the fire. Now, most intelligent people look at the process of putting the fire out, however a dumbass's first priority will be to assign blame and will actually just let the house burn down.

Im not assigning blame to why we're here. It most definitely goes far back beyond any of our modern presidents, but we're here now. We've had almost 3 years of democratic control in the congress (thats the branch responsible for the purse), and 6 months with DRAMATIC programs enacted and lead by our new president.

So with the house on fire... you seem to be the dumbass, when in all reality im asking for an intelligent discussion. As I have said, we HAVE increases in taxation, we HAVE the largest budget ever, the largest deficit ever projected with the largest increase in spending EVER. This has happened in the past 6 months. We have the largest amount of unemployment in last 27 years. And higher taxes are being proposed now, as we speak, larger government programs are being planned for RIGHT NOW, as we speak.

Im asking you, is this what you wanted, are you pleased with the direction we are going in RIGHT NOW. I havent even mentioned Bush, its clear only the dumbass's want to talk about him.

So i think the better question is, is it even possible to have an intelligent discussion with you?

SR

so how do you propose paying for the inherited and current mess

or coping with it

 

[uscitizen]

Good point DQ.

Looking for a neocon viewpoint now.

 

[SR_]

SR, I know you to be fairly intelligent; I am sure that you do not ascribe the current unemployment rate to Obama.

These economic conditions were a long time in the making. Frankly, I was very concerned toward the end of last year & the beginning of this year that we'd see an outright failure of one of the big 3, and the market tumble to a point somewhere below 6,000. I thought we were right on the precipice. Now, no one can really guarantee anything, and we might still go there, but the general CW on things now is that we may be at a turning point, and may actually get out of the recession this year, albeit with slow growth.

Still, to me, that is something of a small miracle, so yes, I'm happy with how it has gone so far.

And I know we could debate all night on what the correct remedy would have been for the economy in the beginning of the year. I'm sure you would favor cutting taxes & other measures normally pushed by conservatives. Me? I saw a business cycle that could have turned into a near-endless downward spiral. Low consumer confidence leading to lower spending, leading to more businesses laying off employees, leading to even lower consumer spending, and so on. I am certain you do not agree with the idea of massive spending to end that cycle, but I think it was vital.

Consider also that the economy lost trillions while it was in the midst of that downward spiral. If the market had gone sub-6,000, we would have lost trillions more. It would have certainly exceeded the amounts that have been put into bailout & stimulus, and these are hopefully things which will end the cycle, and put Americans back to work, thus increasing revenues & essentially paying for themselves.

Again, I don't expect you to agree with this; however, it is not some wild, fringe economic theory. It is one held my many, and it may just be working.

Actually, I am fine with deficit spending to a certain degree and on what we're spending the money on.

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/deficits-economy-and-republicans-t18554.html?t=18554

I also do not put fault at the feet of Obama for the current unemployment figures, however, he is the man responsible NOW. Meaning, if the unemployment in this nation continues to grow... it is a reflection of his and the democratically elected congress's actions. Surely you understand that taking steps to increase the burden on simple aspects of life, like electricity, will have effects on the budgets of middle class american familys. When you collect a higher portion of the wealth from those who are just above the middle class, then you are removing spending capital from those who have and attempting to redistribute it to those who are dependent on government. As you seek to increase government you increase the number of those dependents. So.. this is the direction we are heading towards, and the buck stops at Mr. Obama. You would agree that the policys of the current administration should be owned.... by the current administration?

Higher taxes, bigger government, increased spending, increased debt... these are not being presented as short term "economic" recovery related proposals... these are being discussed as transformations of The United States..

Is this really what you wanted?

SR

 

[SR_]

Pathetic SR jusr Pathetic

I could not help myself. As if this is the origional SR it was often your response to me in the olden days.

so.... i guess youre going the dumbass route?

no prob.. all i ask is that you step out of the way for some of the other intelligent liberals.

SR

 

[Demwit]

so.... i guess youre going the dumbass route?

no prob.. all i ask is that you step out of the way for some of the other intelligent liberals.

SR

Step out of the way of you? after what you posted?
That is like shit asking the toilet hole not to stink.

so simple for a simple mind.

NO!

 

[Onceler]

Actually, some of the things you listed are being presented as short-term remedies.

What I wanted was a policy that would end the downward spiral, restore confidence & get people back to work. I also wanted topics like healthcare (and no - I have yet to see a plan where the gov't "runs" healthcare), education, the environment and domestic/alternative energy to get back to the forefront of our national priorities.

We'll have to re-visit the success of the economic policy in about a year; if it fails, you'll get what you want, and I have little doubt that the GOP will win Congress back. I'm more optimistic on that, of course.

Notwithstanding that the jury is still out on that, yes, this is exactly what I wanted...

 

[SR_]

Actually, some of the things you listed are being presented as short-term remedies.

What I wanted was a policy that would end the downward spiral, restore confidence & get people back to work. I also wanted topics like healthcare (and no - I have yet to see a plan where the gov't "runs" healthcare), education, the environment and domestic/alternative energy to get back to the forefront of our national priorities.

We'll have to re-visit the success of the economic policy in about a year; if it fails, you'll get what you want, and I have little doubt that the GOP will win Congress back. I'm more optimistic on that, of course.

Notwithstanding that the jury is still out on that, yes, this is exactly what I wanted...

The President has about 9 months... I do not think these policy's are restoring confidence and getting anyone back to work.. I think all we're doing is ever increasing the liability and driving away investment and recovery. I think whats being demonstrated is that too much burden has been placed on the economic engine with little to no incentives. I discussed this with a liberal today, who was feeling a bit of buyers remorse, wishing that there was a more directed effort at the problem and less philosophical dreaming... (which is what republicans should have been pushing instead of direct opposition to doing anything).

So i was curious to see what other liberals may be feeling.. ive also noticed that the polls are starting to dip..

SR

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

We just passed the largest budget in the history of the US, in addition to largest INCREASE in spending and in the deficit in the history of the US (in fact the entire history of the US combined).

Yes, if you don't adjust for inflation, which makes the statistics you're quoting meaningless over time.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

SR, I know you to be fairly intelligent; I am sure that you do not ascribe the current unemployment rate to Obama.

These economic conditions were a long time in the making. Frankly, I was very concerned toward the end of last year & the beginning of this year that we'd see an outright failure of one of the big 3, and the market tumble to a point somewhere below 6,000. I thought we were right on the precipice. Now, no one can really guarantee anything, and we might still go there, but the general CW on things now is that we may be at a turning point, and may actually get out of the recession this year, albeit with slow growth.

Still, to me, that is something of a small miracle, so yes, I'm happy with how it has gone so far.

And I know we could debate all night on what the correct remedy would have been for the economy in the beginning of the year. I'm sure you would favor cutting taxes & other measures normally pushed by conservatives. Me? I saw a business cycle that could have turned into a near-endless downward spiral. Low consumer confidence leading to lower spending, leading to more businesses laying off employees, leading to even lower consumer spending, and so on. I am certain you do not agree with the idea of massive spending to end that cycle, but I think it was vital.

Consider also that the economy lost trillions while it was in the midst of that downward spiral. If the market had gone sub-6,000, we would have lost trillions more. It would have certainly exceeded the amounts that have been put into bailout & stimulus, and these are hopefully things which will end the cycle, and put Americans back to work, thus increasing revenues & essentially paying for themselves.

Again, I don't expect you to agree with this; however, it is not some wild, fringe economic theory. It is one held my many, and it may just be working.

What do we need to get us out of this recession?

We need to skip the new deal. We need to go straight to WWII level spending.