I belive in the vision I belive the framers had, particularly that promoted by Thomas Jefferson.
Maybe we need a new Constitutional Convention.
- Thread starter Jarod
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I belive in the vision I belive the framers had, particularly that promoted by Thomas Jefferson.
SmarterthanYou
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"Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual." --Thomas Jefferson 1819.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." --Thomas Jefferson 1791
THAT Thomas Jefferson?
SmarterthanYou
rebel
this implies that you think some framers might have been wrong about america?
Thats the one!
Along those same lines Id say...
"Those who would give up liberty for a small measure of safety deserve neither..."
That is why I am against trying criminals in military court for fear they might get off... It is why I am against tourture, on the hope we might get some measure of information that will lead to a small hope of safety... Its why I am against warrlentless searches against suspected terrorists... Its why I am against laws that take away a womans right to choose regarding abortion... Its why I am against prohibiting gays from gettting married.... Its why I am against having the 10 commandments posted in a federal courthouse.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
and it would also be why you're against the government prohibiting machine gun possession, right? that whole liberty over security thing, inconveniences and all that?
I believe that there are limits... Just like I belive that the Government can prohibit certian types of speech, I belive tha the government can limit ownership of certian types of arms.
I dont know about all machine guns.... Id have to study the issue. The line is somewhere between hunting rifles and flame throwers... to me!
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are you suggesting all framers were in total agreement as to freedom and what america stands for?
SmarterthanYou
rebel
then you can hardly be a believer in jeffersons vision of america.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
no. as evidenced by the federalist/anti-federalist papers and the convention notes, lots of people had different ideas, but they were all collaborating and came up with a document that nearly everyone could agree upon. so in essence, they all did agree on what america they built.
I disagree, while he placed the line on the side of freedom, as do I... He was not against all laws and limits. He was not an anacharist!
SmarterthanYou
rebel
"Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual." --Thomas Jefferson 1819.
I did not say he was an anarchist, but he obviously wasn't in favor of limits when it violated the rights of an individual.
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so all agreed on what exactly the second amendment means? and what is to not be infringed upon?
"Within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others"
Meaning that these rights are limited by those of other people....
SmarterthanYou
rebel
so what rights of other people do I violate by my possession of a machine gun?
I dont belive that a machine gun is necessarly the place to draw the line... But in the hands of the wrong person.... the right to life, safety and all other rights that naturally flow from those two.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
and how do we know who's the wrong hands are? and what do we do about that?
Now you're getting it...