Mental Illness is not to blame for gun violence

[Lao Tse]

Well, unfortunately most gun deaths are suicides, so it is a major part of this debate.

Guns are the most successful way people kill themselves, with an 85% "success" rate.

Drugs, the most common form of suicide attempts, has only a 3% "success" rate.

So I think it's safe to assume that of the 17,000 people who attempt to kill themselves with a gun every year, if those people couldn't get access to a gun and had to try another means to kill themselves, they will more likely than not end up choosing drugs, and 97% of those attempts are not going to succeed.

So if we are able to prevent suicidal people from getting guns, we could potentially save 15,000 lives every year.

and if they really want to die, then they'll jump in front of a train. You gonna outlaw trains, dumbass?

Making people live while miserable increases vice consumption and medical billings. Outlawing guns is a big pharma, big tobacco, and big alcohol and big drugs move.

 

[Matt Dillon]

You can't kill 100 people in 60 seconds with a knife.

I doubt it can be done with a gun unless multiple shooter full-auto and there's just masses of people standing around.

Let's just cut through the bullshit: You hate the 2nd Amendment, The Constitution, and the ideals America was founded on, amirite?

 

[LV426]

you just said it, they are liable. it's safest to flag all people as crazy. its a bad system.

Yeah, and they're also liable for being sued if they misdiagnosed you.

So then you can both go to court, and you can argue why you think the mental health screening was wrong, and the doctor can argue why they think it's right, and a judge can look at your personal history, including your posts on JPP because...DISCOVERY Y'ALL, and the judge can make the final determination.

So the system is perfectly OK...so long as you aren't trying to game it.

 

[Lao Tse]

Yeah, and they're also liable for being sued if they misdiagnosed you.

So then you can both go to court, and you can argue why you think the mental health screening was wrong, and the doctor can argue why they think it's right, and a judge can look at your personal history, including your posts on JPP because...DISCOVERY Y'ALL, and the judge can make the final determination.

So the system is perfectly OK...so long as you aren't trying to game it.

which do you think a physician fears most, an individual suing for not giving gun rights, or the government and other entities who claim you granted gun rights in err? who has more resources.

you're a moron.

 

[LV426]

I understand and empathize with your concerns, LV.
We need solutions, but we need them in a nation where being a citizen with full rights means having access to personal gun ownership.
We can't change the constitution right now, so shall we dissolve the nation to accomplish this goal?
As I said, you're probably more against that than I am.

I think mandatory pre-screening mental health examinations would go a long, long way to clamping back on suicides and mass shootings.

 

[LV426]

That would be even hard to do with a machine gun, in fact.

The guy in Vegas nearly accomplished that.

 

[LV426]

and if they really want to die, then they'll jump in front of a train.

Will they?

Because suicide-by-firearm is not the #1 method people attempt suicide. It's not even #2.

 

[LV426]

Making people live while miserable increases vice consumption and medical billings..

No, making people live without access to mental health services increases vice consumption and medical billings.

Outlawing guns is a big pharma, big tobacco, and big alcohol and big drugs move.

Go fuck yourself.

 

[LV426]

I doubt it can be done with a gun unless multiple shooter full-auto and there's just masses of people standing around.

About 60 people died in 60 seconds during the Vegas shooting.

 

[Lao Tse]

I think mandatory pre-screening mental health examinations would go a long, long way to clamping back on suicides and mass shootings.

wrong. its too much power in a physicians hands. for the reasons i mentioned above, it's just a way of reducing guns via backdoor methods.

 

[LV426]

which do you think a physician fears most, an individual suing for not giving gun rights, or the government and other entities who claim you granted gun rights in err?

Obviously the latter...which shouldn't affect you at all, right, because you could pass a mental health exam, couldn't you?

So who are you protecting here by opposing this, if not yourself?

 

[Lao Tse]

About 60 people died in 60 seconds during the Vegas shooting.

that event had multiple shooters, though the media lies about it.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

The guy in Vegas nearly accomplished that.

OK. I'll give points for coming close.
Did that asshole go to trial yet? Was he killed? I don't remember. We have so many of those hideous incidents, unfortunately.
That's why I don't disagree that SOMETHING must be done.
I'm just not sure what.

Also, every progressive liberal can't be on the vanguard of every liberal cause.
My big things are national healthcare and the abolition of "right to work" laws.
I make no effort to impede the other initiatives, however.
They're just not my personal priorities.

 

[LV426]

wrong. its too much power in a physicians hands.

Only if you couldn't pass the screening.

Do you not think you could pass it?

Why would a doctor deny you your gun if you're mentally fit, and demonstrated in the evaluation that you're mentally fit?

for the reasons i mentioned above, it's just a way of reducing guns via backdoor methods.

Yeah, because it precludes depressed , suicidal, or psychotic people from getting a gun...so yeah, it would reduce guns by taking them out of the hands of sick people.

Why do you oppose taking guns from sick people?

 

[LV426]

that event had multiple shooters, though the media lies about it.

No, it was just one shooter.

A "very fine person".

 

[LV426]

OK. I'll give points for coming close.
Did that asshole go to trial yet? Was he killed? I don't remember. We have so many of those hideous incidents, unfortunately.
That's why I don't disagree that SOMETHING must be done.
I'm just not sure what.

He killed himself.

So he was homicidal and suicidal, but was never evaluated by a mental health professional, so there was no flag on his background check when he bought all his guns and ammo.

Now, if he had to go through a mental health screening, perhaps a doctor would have identified those traits in him.

But we'll never know because he didn't save his brain to be studied. He blew it off instead.

 

[Lao Tse]

No, it was just one shooter.

A "very fine person".

no. that was a lie.

 

[Lao Tse]

Only if you couldn't pass the screening.

Do you not think you could pass it?

Why would a doctor deny you your gun if you're mentally fit, and demonstrated in the evaluation that you're mentally fit?




Yeah, because it precludes depressed , suicidal, or psychotic people from getting a gun...so yeah, it would reduce guns by taking them out of the hands of sick people.

Why do you oppose taking guns from sick people?

because it's too much political pressure and legal exposure for a physician to be honest.

 

[LV426]

because it's too much political pressure and legal exposure for a physician to be honest.

Wow...so you want psychotic, suicidal, depressed people to have the same access to guns as you because of "politics"?

The physician has to abide by the law, and the physician also has to abide by the Hippocratic Oath.

So they're not going to lie when they diagnose you...the only party in all of this that not only has the capacity to lie, but probably will, is the person submitting themselves to the examination.

And the only reason they would lie is if they knew they wouldn't pass the screening if they're being honest.

 

[Matt Dillon]

About 60 people died in 60 seconds during the Vegas shooting.

Yeah, that's shit's hella suspect it was all some 60 year old man doing it.

I heard the fire and it sounds like an M249 and multiple guns. 'Sup?