Litmus
Verified User
No. I'm saying that whichever comes first is generally considered the ORIGIN, due to the meaning of the word "origin".
Misconception of Eggs and Easter...
- Thread starter Damocles
- Start date
No. I'm saying that whichever comes first is generally considered the ORIGIN, due to the meaning of the word "origin".
If the symbolism was the same I would agree. That it is significantly different in all aspects pretty much negates it. If Passover were a "Spring" celebration, the egg presented as a symbol of regrowth and birth, if it were colored, then I would be far more in agreement with the Pagan ideation in the ceremony.
Since the egg is presented as part of a mourning ritual, its symbolism almost entirely opposite, that it is uncolored and not part of a spring celebration ritual, all tell me that the symbolism did not come from the Pagan ceremonies.
It is illogical to assume that because there is an egg present it always must have come from whomever used it in a ceremony that might have been celebrated earlier. It becomes a control aspect if somebody presents the idea that any other information given is somehow irrelevant because of the way that they currently believe.
I have no control over your belief, just the fact that others have not been armed with the information that I have provided, and the fact that I present it differently than you want, it makes you want to control their belief and the significance of the symbolism of the holiday that was lost.
Litmus
Verified User
You're talkng about different meanings being ascribed to the same symbols. The symbols themselves are the same, and are pagan in origin. You said yourself the symbols mean what one ascribes to them. Do you take that back now?
You are lost in what I am saying.
One group may use a pine cone to mean something, another group chooses the same pine cone to have a different meaning. It does not follow that the second group chose the pine cone because the first group did. That is not logical, it is desperation attempting to find a way to teach a negative when none is present.
Had they chosen the symbol because of the first group the meaning would be much the same. That it is so significantly different in first presentation, and also in meaning, makes it evident that they were not selecting the symbol because of the first group using the symbol. They chose it for a different reason without regard to the choice of the first group.
One can say that they both use a pine cone, this would be true, but that it was because of the other group using it first does not logically follow.
And that it must always mean whatever the first group assigned is even more illogical.
Were that true the word "god" couldn't be used today, because in a previous religion it had a different meaning.
Litmus
Verified User
Sometimes people just stick with same thing because it's familiar and people are accustomed to it. It's perfectly logical.
Or somebody can pick the egg entirely unrelated to the other. It does not logically follow that they used the egg in their ritual because of the choice of another group. Insisting that it does and that the previous meaning chosen by another group is the only one that can be applied is a "controlling" restrictive ideation.
I provided actual history.
1. That the egg was used in the Passover celebration long before Christ came along and that during his last supper he would have eaten it, and the symbolism applied to the egg during that ritual.
2. That early Christians celebrated both holidays as they were almost all Jewish.
3. That the reason for the egg in the holiday predated the inclusion of Pagan ritual of coloring and hiding the eggs.
4. That the significance was lost because of the attempt to distance the religions from each other by those early Christians.
and finally
5. That the meaning was so lost during that time that modern Christians often don't understand what the significance was before the inclusion of those Pagan rituals of coloring and hiding of the eggs and are often misled into believing that those portions were only included when the Christians took on those aspects used to bring more Pagans into the fold.
You provide only circumspection that the egg must have been chosen because Pagans used them in a different way for a different ceremony ignoring that Passover isn't even the celebration of spring, nor is Easter.
Litmus
Verified User
Theses religions all morphed and shifted and interrelated amongst each other among the peoples of the ancient world. They didn't occur in a vacuum. Accept it.
Or you can accept that they may have simply chosen a symbol used by another group more randomly than that. And that there is no actual knowledge that they chose that symbol the same way.
You might even recognize that they believed in one God long before Passover came about. That this particular symbolism was chosen long after they had a different belief system than the Pagans. Or do you forget that they had believed in one God long before Moses or what Passover is?
Litmus
Verified User
It's think it more likely that they DID NOT just randomly happen to choose the same symbol.
I think it more likely that they did considering the time line of it. The Moses story happened long after they began a different belief system. Long after Abraham. Had it been a ceremony more closer to the separation from Paganism to Judaism I might be more inclined to believe the way that you do. I would more especially be inclined to believe that way if the symbolism were closer than it is. Had they colored the eggs rather than eaten them in the ritual. Had they used the ceremony to celebrate spring as did the other.
Things such as that. That they are so very different in all aspects makes it more likely that they chose the symbolism entirely separately.
Litmus
Verified User
Considering the physical colocation and intermingling of the populations I don't consider it as clean cut as you do. We will just have to agree to disagree. And like you said, symbols mean the meaning one assigns to them.
They do.
uscitizen
Villified User
Probably because from what little I know of Buddists, they search for truth, not justification of a faith/religion ?
Just a note on the preacher that said that Damo. he was a MBA type business manager for a large tobacco corp until he had a heart attack and got religion at about 54 yrs old....
Litmus
Verified User
So what religion am i justifying when I point out the pagan influences on both judaism and christianity?
None really. I can't even see how it would be "corrupting" it unless they chose to follow the whole rutting in the jungle part of the ritual. Simply using an egg in a celebration of a holiday that doesn't even represent the belief system and saying it was some sort of corruption is plain illogical. You are defending the whole idea that only you have "The Truth" and everybody else is somehow "sheep" following what you believe to be a corrupt institution, using eggs as a symbol as "proof" of the corruption.
Litmus
Verified User
No, you just get antsy when people intelligently discuss religions in a sociological context instead of considering it as perfect godly wisdom revealed in it's entirety to special chosen people of god.
LOL. This is such an absurd statement. I don't believe in that God. I don't get "antsy" over anything. I ask questions and you attempt to answer with ad-hominem ridiculous attacks that have no meaning.
Clearly... I mean, people in South America used them to symbolize the necessity of human sacrifice! Therefore all eggs used in any context other than breakfast mean that!