money is a fiction

Don Quixote

Don Quixote

cancer survivor
Contributor
Money is a useful fiction, but it is easily manipulated by governments, corporations, large financial institutions and the super wealthy

Why is it that we continue to have economic ‘booms’ and ‘busts’

Mainly, because the us of a (and other nations) continue to fight economic wars

Money is a marketable item along with goods and services

Normally, trade balances will determine the ‘value’ of a nation’s money, but nations may artificially raise or lower the value of their money to keep trade with other nation’s flowing or in the nation’s favor

Financial institutions profit from lending money. However, sometimes people (or organizations) borrow money and are unable to repay it. A financial institution may still profit from its other loans, but if enough loans ‘default’, then their profit margin may become negative to such an extent that they fail. This is why we have the federal deposit insurance corporation (FDIC). Investors in an institution that fails will have their investment repaid by the FDIC (up to $100,000) plus whatever is left over in the way of assets held by the financial institution. But, what if there is not enough money in the FDIC or too many financial institutions fail? Then the economy of a nation will take a heavy hit and slide into either a recession or a depression.

Such an event will reduce the probability of elected officials’ re-election…so the government will borrow money from itself via use of increasing the national debt (and reducing the overall value of its money) or increasing taxes to ‘bailout’ the failing financial institutions. Who is supposed to watch over the financial institutions to prevent such a problem (disaster)…the federal government that you elected.

Oh well
 
DEBT DEBT DEBT DEBT

I once read that if all Americans paid all of their debts there would be no money in circulation. Can anyone else explain that to me?
 
Watermark said:
DEBT DEBT DEBT DEBT

I once read that if all Americans paid all of their debts there would be no money in circulation. Can anyone else explain that to me?
Click to expand...
Can you give a cite? It is pretty much preposterous. Most "money" isn't even in physical circulation.
 
Its really just a measure of work in a way.

Some people manage to accumulate it on other peoples work.

Back in the days of the barter system the same was true.

Its about figuring out how to profit off the physical labor provided by others.

The funny thing is it is also a way for some to profit off the labor of poeple who are long dead.

That is old money.

Imagine how much old money people gained from slavery (not just American slavery but ancient and world wide of all colors and kinds) It was a great way to get adn stay rich for generations.
 
money is just bookkeeping and why assumptions can get you in trouble

Watermark said:
DEBT DEBT DEBT DEBT

I once read that if all Americans paid all of their debts there would be no money in circulation. Can anyone else explain that to me?
Click to expand...

It is an old saying from before 'real money’ (usually coins made of copper, silver or gold – but were often debased) disappeared
Currently, money is all bookkeeping
Consider how big a mess would occur if the major financial computer systems crashed and took their backups along with the crash
Offsite backup is a really good thing

The following is a true storey about how a data service nearly put itself out of business. A low level clerk was hired while a major level manager was on vacation. When the manager saw the clerk in the computer room he asked him to load some disks (he gave him a list of the disks). NB; at that time offline disk storage was in the form of single disk cartridges (the disks were in ‘platters’ about 16” in diameter with the media inside) that were loaded by inserting them into a disk drive. The clerk got the disks from storage, loaded them on a cart and took them to the computer room. Unfortunately, he rammed the cart into a wall by accident and most of the cartridges were knocked off the cart. NB; if one of those cartridges was hit hard enough (like dropping it) it would become misaligned and inserting it into a disk drive would usually ruin the disk heads. The clerk had seen how the disks were loaded and unloaded but he was not warned about dropping them (his training had been deferred until the manager returned from his vacation and was scheduled for the next week).

Yep, you guessed what happened. He attempted to load each platter but did not get a ready light. So, he tried loading each of the disks into each available drive. Rather than asking, he took the stack of disks back to the storage room and got the set of backup disks. He tried loading the set of backups. About then, one of the other clerks noticed that he we having a problem and asked what he was doing. The upshot of the whole thing was that he ruined the disk heads on almost all of the platter type disk drives. Additionally, each platter disk that was loaded onto a drive whose disk heads had been ruined was also ruined if it had not been ruined already.

First the bad news, there were not enough spare disk heads in Los Angeles to repair the ruined heads (each platter drive used 4 heads). The primary and backup copies of the requested disks were ruined.

The good news, sufficient heads were flown into LA and a set of disks were stored offsite.

What do you think happened to the clerk? The high level manager was a company VP. He actually took the blame because he had not verified that a new employee had not been trained. Rules regarding training new employees were modified.

The clerk, he was complemented on his initiative and reamed out for exceeding his training, but he was retained and received proper training.

Oh well
 
Desh said:
Its really just a measure of work in a way.

Some people manage to accumulate it on other peoples work.

Back in the days of the barter system the same was true.

Its about figuring out how to profit off the physical labor provided by others.

The funny thing is it is also a way for some to profit off the labor of poeple who are long dead.

That is old money.

Imagine how much old money people gained from slavery (not just American slavery but ancient and world wide of all colors and kinds) It was a great way to get adn stay rich for generations.
Click to expand...

It's a measure of value to you, because you have to work for it. It represents coercion to the elites who manufacture money and use it to control your behavior.

This is the problem with fiat currency, it represents nearly total power to those who get to make it and use it to pay their friends with guns to continue the scam they're perpetrating on mankind.

Exchanging value is a good thing, trade is good. The power disparity and coercion of fiat currency is a noose around mankind's neck, however.
 
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Desh said:
Its really just a measure of work in a way.

Some people manage to accumulate it on other peoples work.

Back in the days of the barter system the same was true.

Its about figuring out how to profit off the physical labor provided by others.

The funny thing is it is also a way for some to profit off the labor of poeple who are long dead.

That is old money.

Imagine how much old money people gained from slavery (not just American slavery but ancient and world wide of all colors and kinds) It was a great way to get adn stay rich for generations.
Click to expand...

The labor theory of value is total crap.
 
Desh said:
Its really just a measure of work in a way.

Some people manage to accumulate it on other peoples work.

Back in the days of the barter system the same was true.

Its about figuring out how to profit off the physical labor provided by others.

The funny thing is it is also a way for some to profit off the labor of poeple who are long dead.

That is old money.

Imagine how much old money people gained from slavery (not just American slavery but ancient and world wide of all colors and kinds) It was a great way to get adn stay rich for generations.
Click to expand...


d

the value of something is what it will purchase
 
DonQuixote said:
d

the value of something is what it will purchase
Click to expand...

Exactly. ANd fiat currency systems guarantee rampant inflation over time. Hence our salaries are a bait and switch in slow motion, as our life savings are reduced to nothing over time.
 
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AssHatZombie said:
Exactly. ANd fiat currency systems guarantee rampant inflation over time. Hence our salaries and compensation packages are all a bait and switch in slow motion, as our life savings are reduced to nothing over time.
Click to expand...

Ass, since you are my own Man Friday and personal stepinfetchit, I am going to give you some advice for your own good? Instead of posting at 4:am even before the crack of dawn, your depressing predicktions, and trying to get JPP posters to commit suicide, we are getting reports that the Diaper Don is the latest jumper, with police being called to the scene, butt, the problem is, even the police are encouraging him to jump? We do not need moore JPP suicides? It would be better for you to get laid, it is obvious to mensa man that you are a severe case of being backed up, and after your pipes are cleared up the world will look much brighter, it is not all bad, capiscia?
 
RJS said:
Ass, since you are my own Man Friday and personal stepinfetchit, I am going to give you some advice for your own good? Instead of posting at 4:am even before the crack of dawn, your depressing predicktions, and trying to get JPP posters to commit suicide, we are getting reports that the Diaper Don is the latest jumper, with police being called to the scene, butt, the problem is, even the police are encouraging him to jump? We do not need moore JPP suicides? It would be better for you to get laid, it is obvious to mensa man that you are a severe case of being backed up, and after your pipes are cleared up the world will look much brighter, it is not all bad, capiscia?
Click to expand...

Thanks for contributing.

Here's who's behind the federal reserve
http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html

Federal Reserve Directors: A Study of Corporate and Banking Influence
Published 1976

Chart 1 reveals the linear connection between the Rothschilds and the Bank of England, and the London banking houses which ultimately control the Federal Reserve Banks through their stockholdings of bank stock and their subsidiary firms in New York. The two principal Rothschild representatives in New York, J. P. Morgan Co., and Kuhn,Loeb & Co. were the firms which set up the Jekyll Island Conference at which the Federal Reserve Act was drafted, who directed the subsequent successful campaign to have the plan enacted into law by Congress, and who purchased the controlling amounts of stock in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in 1914. These firms had their principal officers appointed to the Federal Reserve Board of Governors and the Federal Advisory Council in 1914. In 1914 a few families (blood or business related) owning controlling stock in existing banks (such as in New York City) caused those banks to purchase controlling shares in the Federal Reserve regional banks. Examination of the charts and text in the House Banking Committee Staff Report of August, 1976 and the current stockholders list of the 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks show this same family control.

N.M. Rothschild , London - Bank of England
______________________________________
* *
* J. Henry Schroder

* Banking * Corp.
* *
Brown, Shipley - Morgan Grenfell - Lazard - *
& Company & Company Brothers *
* * * *
--------------------* -------* * *
* * * * * *
Alex Brown - Brown Bros. - Lord Mantagu - Morgan et Cie -- Lazard ---*
& Son * Harriman Norman * Paris Bros *
* * / * N.Y. *
* * * * * *
* Governor, Bank * J.P. Morgan Co -- Lazard ---*
* of England / N.Y. Morgan Freres *
* 1924-1938 / Guaranty Co. Paris *
* / Morgan Stanley Co. * /
* / * \Schroder Bank
* / * Hamburg/Berlin
* / Drexel & Company /
* / Philadelphia /
* / /
* / Lord Airlie
* / /
* / M. M. Warburg Chmn J. Henry Schroder
* * Hamburg --------- marr. Virginia F. Ryan
* * * grand-daughter of Otto
* * * Kahn of Kuhn Loeb Co.
* * *
* * *
Lehman Brothers N.Y -------------- Kuhn Loeb Co. N. Y.
* * --------------------------
µ
* * * *
8
* * * *
Lehman Brothers - Mont. Alabama Solomon Loeb Abraham Kuhn
* * __*______________________*_________
Lehman-Stern, New Orleans Jacob Schiff/Theresa Loeb Nina Loeb/Paul Warburg
------------------------- * * *
* * Mortimer Schiff James Paul Warburg
_____________*_______________/ *
* * * * *
Mayer Lehman * Emmanuel Lehman \
* * * \
Herbert Lehman Irving Lehman \
* * * \
Arthur Lehman \ Phillip Lehman John Schiff/Edith Brevoort Baker
/ * Present Chairman Lehman Bros
/ Robert Owen Lehman Kuhn Loeb - Granddaughter of
/ * George F. Baker
* / *
* / *
* / Lehman Bros Kuhn Loeb (1980)
* / *
* / Thomas Fortune Ryan
* * *
* * *
Federal Reserve Bank Of New York *
******** *
______National City Bank N. Y. *
* * *
* National Bank of Commerce N.Y ---*
* * \
* Hanover National Bank N.Y. \
* * \
* Chase National Bank N.Y. \
* *
* *
Shareholders - National City Bank - N.Y. *
----------------------------------------- *
* /
James Stillman /
Elsie m. William Rockefeller /
Isabel m. Percy Rockefeller /
William Rockefeller Shareholders - National Bank of Commerce N. Y.
J. P. Morgan -----------------------------------------------
M.T. Pyne Equitable Life - J.P. Morgan
Percy Pyne Mutual Life - J.P. Morgan
J.W. Sterling H.P. Davison - J. P. Morgan
NY Trust/NY Edison Mary W. Harriman
Shearman & Sterling A.D. Jiullard - North British Merc. Insurance
* Jacob Schiff
* Thomas F. Ryan
* Paul Warburg
* Levi P. Morton - Guaranty Trust - J. P. Morgan
*
*
Shareholders - First National Bank of N.Y.
-------------------------------------------
J.P. Morgan
George F. Baker
George F. Baker Jr.
Edith Brevoort Baker
US Congress - 1946-64
*
*
*
*
*
Shareholders - Hanover National Bank N.Y.
------------------------------------------
James Stillman
William Rockefeller
*
 
AssHatZombie said:
As far as updating the model, I would assume some of the kids have taken over. You think a lot has changed since 76?
Click to expand...
Umm yes, some deregulation of banks and such have happened. the national debt has gone up astronomically, the demand for oil has become a major issue. some oil is now traded in Euros, etc..

Yep a lot has changed.
And I am not saying for all has been for the better.
 
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It's common for people to believe that our current state is the worst state ever. This has been repeated throughout history. But our debt has been about twice as high as this before, and was greater in the 80's too.
 
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