More Weirdness

The fact is he got caught at it. And on video-tape.

Seriously, I do not believe that people are working at places that think it is okey-dokey to slap and tickle on the company dime. Getting caught this publicly in a position of power over children is going to make a larger reaction to those who do work in such a place.

If you really don't care how a teacher and principal act at work, and cannot see how their position is different than yours then you are clearly simply ignoring the circumstances that these people are put into a position of power over children and are therefore usually held to a higher standard.
 
Damocles said:
The fact is he got caught at it. And on video-tape.

Seriously, I do not believe that people are working at places that think it is okey-dokey to slap and tickle on the company dime. Getting caught this publicly in a position of power over children is going to make a larger reaction to those who do work in such a place.

If you really don't care how a teacher and principal act at work, and cannot see how their position is different than yours then you are clearly simply ignoring the circumstances that these people are put into a position of power over children and are therefore usually held to a higher standard.
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Oh, I see. Either we despise these two or we "don't care how a teacher and principal act" on the job. Nothing in between, I suppose?

I said from the outset that these two acted irresponsibly and implied -- or thought I did -- that they were ripe for disciplinary action. What interested me about it was the reaction -- ridiculous over-reaction, in my opinion -- of the parents. Some of the parents, clearly, not all.

Seems to me that the same people who become overwrought at any suggestion of "political correctness" ought to be, if honest, outraged at this example of overanxious idiocy.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Oh, I see. Either we despise these two or we "don't care how a teacher and principal act" on the job. Nothing in between, I suppose?

I said from the outset that these two acted irresponsibly and implied -- or thought I did -- that they were ripe for disciplinary action. What interested me about it was the reaction -- ridiculous over-reaction, in my opinion -- of the parents. Some of the parents, clearly, not all.

Seems to me that the same people who become overwrought at any suggestion of "political correctness" ought to be, if honest, outraged at this example of overanxious idiocy.
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Despise? When have I said we should despise anybody? You are putting words in my mouth.

My first posts were about how much I really didn't care what these people did. I'm actually more concerned with who took the video. However, their actions are irresponsible and they got punished for it and deservedly so. I feel embarrassed that the video got out to the public too. A nation of voyeurs.

But I wouldn't excuse the action because of that.

Personally I'd like to see the person who illegally videotaped these people get some of that punishment as well.
 
Damocles said:
Despise? When have I said we should despise anybody? You are putting words in my mouth.

My first posts were about how much I really didn't care what these people did. I'm actually more concerned with who took the video. However, their actions are irresponsible and they got punished for it and deservedly so. I feel embarrassed that the video got out to the public too. A nation of voyeurs.

But I wouldn't excuse the action because of that.

Personally I'd like to see the person who illegally videotaped these people get some of that punishment as well.
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If a society allows illegally obtained evidence to be used to condemn someone then it provides justification to the voyeurs to continue their acts.
 
Watermark said:
If a society allows illegally obtained evidence to be used to condemn someone then it provides justification to the voyeurs to continue their acts.
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They have not been convicted of a crime. I would agree if they had. What policy does the school have against filming in a public place?
 
Watermark said:
It's not a public place, and it was no with their knowledge.
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It is a public place. Your office is not private unless you own a private business. An office at a public building such as a school is a public place.

Once again, I ask you. What policy does the school have against filming in a public place?
 
A school isn't a public building. It's a government building. There's a difference. Just because we often describe government things as "public" doesn't mean a school is a public place in the way that a park is. Legally it's far more simialar to a private residence. Don't believe me? Just go try and walk on one during school hours.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that it would be illegal of any employer to place you in an office and film you without telling you that you were being filmed or making it obvious to some degree.

And Damo, a student recording, for instance, a classroom during school hours with a tape recorder is a federal offence. Now, I guess they're infringing on our rights to film public places and voyeur other individuals against their will, but I don't care.
 
Hmm it is the public school system.
Just go trying to walk into many areas of "public" buildings at will as well....
 
Watermark said:
A school isn't a public building. It's a government building. There's a difference. Just because we often describe government things as "public" doesn't mean a school is a public place in the way that a park is. Legally it's far more simialar to a private residence. Don't believe me? Just go try and walk on one during school hours.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that it would be illegal of any employer to place you in an office and film you without telling you that you were being filmed or making it obvious to some degree.

And Damo, a student recording, for instance, a classroom during school hours with a tape recorder is a federal offence. Now, I guess they're infringing on our rights to film public places and voyeur other individuals against their will, but I don't care.
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That you don't have open access doesn't mean that it isn't a public building. Much like a court, they can close the room to people or not. That doesn't make it less public.

You attempt to say that it isn't, notice how there is nothing about arresting the people who made the video? That is because it isn't illegal to tape people in a public place. Now, one more time I will ask you the question. The answer to which you clearly have no idea so attempt to give a definition to a school that doesn't exist.

What is the policy of the school of videotaping people in public places?

And using a casette tape in a classroom is not a Federal Offense. In fact, just about six months ago using a casette tape a student caught a teacher specifically talking his own political opinion to kids. Do you remember discussing it on another board? I sure do. It even happened in Colorado...

You keep attempting to skew the conversation in a different direction, but it isn't going there.

And no, an employer can tape you at any place in their business. First because it is theirs. They often use that same access to put spyware on their computers and watch everything you type, they have that right.
 
They do not have the right to steal your own actions and make you believe you are privately doing something whenever you aren't. That's obvious, Damo.
 
Watermark said:
http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2007/04/11/news/news513.txt

Imagine...

This man filmed two girls undressing and got prison time.

And it was in HIS home and with HIS film!

What injustice!
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Other laws still apply in such circumstances, such as age restrictions. Once again. There is a reason that nobody is looking to put the people who made the video in jail. It is because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public place.
 
Watermark said:
No, Damo, stop being a fucking idiot. A school is not a park.
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No, stop being deliberately obtuse. It is still a public place. Just as a Judge making a courtroom inaccessible to the public doesn't make it "not a public place". It still is, and there is a public record that will be available with correct records requests.

There are specific laws against physical access to protect the public that makes the most use of the public place, but it doesn't make it less public.

A prison is also a public place, but you do not have total access to the prisoners area if you go to visit.
 
Watermark said:
They do not have the right to steal your own actions and make you believe you are privately doing something whenever you aren't. That's obvious, Damo.
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There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in a business. There have been rulings on this. What they own they can control.
 
Damocles said:
Other laws still apply in such circumstances. Once again. There is a reason that nobody is looking to put the people who made the video in jail. It is because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public place.
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1. The place is not public. It is a closed office. The people assumed they were alone. The principal was the boss of the place and may have very well told people to stay out. Call it "unreasonable" for him to expect privacy if you will, but you are just being silly.

2. I have no right to place a videocamera in my principals office. If I persisted in doing so I would fully expect to be put in prison or kicked out of school.

3. OK, someone (who may very well have been a fucking sicko criminal, who knows), walks into the school and just randomly places a video camera in there? He's violating so many laws it makes me head spin.
 
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