MSNBC Host To Rick Santorum: What Are You Doing About ‘White Men With Guns’?

christiefan915 said:
Make some suggestions already and stop equivocating.
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suggestion number 1.....recognize that young gang members illegally owning guns is a bigger problem than the general population legally owning them
suggestion number 2.....take steps to reduce the illegal ownership of guns by young gang members and stop flapping your lips about reducing the legal ownership of guns
suggestion number 3.....wait and see if some liberal admits suggestion 1 and 2 are logical......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
suggestion number 1.....recognize that young gang members illegally owning guns is a bigger problem than the general population legally owning them
suggestion number 2.....take steps to reduce the illegal ownership of guns by young gang members and stop flapping your lips about reducing the legal ownership of guns
suggestion number 3.....wait and see if some liberal admits suggestion 1 and 2 are logical......
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Agreed, nobody (not just young gang members) should own guns illegally.

Now how do we stop this from happening?

I know that some who own guns illegally got them from legal owners.
 
christiefan915 said:
You absolutely nailed the economic factor, Norah. And I agree with the part about families also.

I just wish the cons here would give specifics on how to address the problems they're complaining about.
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To be honest though taking the easy way by joining a gang or turning to crime is still 100% up to the person so while I can try to understand why they may make decisions like that it doesn't necessarily mean that the decision is good or understandable. Joining a gang in my opinion is not understandable or justifiable just because your childhood is hard, but if you have parents or a single parent that raise you in that same culture then its probably very difficult to break out of it. What I find to be strange is how there are many black teens that have a mom or dad that works really hard to try and provide for them but they still join a gang or they still get involved with crime in some way. Is the appeal to join a gang or to get money through crime more realistic to them than working for it? to answer my own question, I don't know, but it seems that way. And with gun violence in those communities the gun is just the tool involved and doesnt create violence, the people create it and continue it. Legal gun ownership and legally buying a gun is often harder than a gang member getting an illegal gun. It's that black market illegal gun business that is a much greater concern to me than what I can buy at Cabellas.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
every fucking liberal refuses to admit gun violence is the problem.......they argue that gun ownership is the problem........
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:rolleyes: Right, no lib admitted the Sandy Hook shootings were a problem, no lib admitted the Aurora shootings were a problem, no lib admitted that the San Bernardino shootings were a problem...

Now you're just being ridiculous.
 
christiefan915 said:
Agreed, nobody (not just young gang members) should own guns illegally.

Now how do we stop this from happening?

I know that some who own guns illegally got them from legal owners.
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is this how you refrain from flapping your lips about the legal ownership of guns?......if so, I am not impressed.....
 
christiefan915 said:
:rolleyes: Right, no lib admitted the Sandy Hook shootings were a problem, no lib admitted the Aurora shootings were a problem, no lib admitted that the San Bernardino shootings were a problem...

Now you're just being ridiculous.
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the ONLY thing libbs discussed was how they could use those events as an opportunity to restrict legal gun ownership.........
 
Norah said:
To be honest though taking the easy way by joining a gang or turning to crime is still 100% up to the person so while I can try to understand why they may make decisions like that it doesn't necessarily mean that the decision is good or understandable. Joining a gang in my opinion is not understandable or justifiable just because your childhood is hard, but if you have parents or a single parent that raise you in that same culture then its probably very difficult to break out of it. What I find to be strange is how there are many black teens that have a mom or dad that works really hard to try and provide for them but they still join a gang or they still get involved with crime in some way. Is the appeal to join a gang or to get money through crime more realistic to them than working for it? to answer my own question, I don't know, but it seems that way. And with gun violence in those communities the gun is just the tool involved and doesnt create violence, the people create it and continue it. Legal gun ownership and legally buying a gun is often harder than a gang member getting an illegal gun. It's that black market illegal gun business that is a much greater concern to me than what I can buy at Cabellas.
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IMO societal negatives such as racism still play a part in why people join gangs, along with economics and family.
 
christiefan915 said:
IMO societal negatives such as racism still play a part in why people join gangs, along with economics and family.
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only so much though. I dont think its the primary cause anymore though. I think the reason it stays the way it is in many of these neighborhoods is cultural more than it is racism outside of that community. If a neighborhood that is known to be notoriously bad stays bad for decades then I don't think outside influences are making it stay that way anymore and instead its that neighborhood becoming an incubator basically. The same people stay and never leave because they have an established culture within that community that lends to them staying in power or leaves them stable in that gang life. Who wants to go clean it up when its considered normal in that spot, and who is going to do it? It has to come from within.
 
christiefan915 said:
WHAT IS THE POINT? Why do you guys focus on black violence only?

Your gang comment is a case in point. First of all I don't think there should be any violent gangs carrying illegal weapons no matter what the color of the members. Why does color matter in your scenario? I've never seen you post on organized crime violence, motorcycle gang violence, white supremacist violence, white violence in general, but you and others like you absolutely slobber over black and Muslim violence. And then you have the nerve to criticize me? You guys are hypocrites with an agenda, plain and simple. Own it.
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given that you could take out nearly half of all violence by focusing on a small part of the population, it would be the best place to spend most of our efforts in terms of maximum impact.
 
christiefan915 said:
And again you're making my points for me.

1. MSNBC didn't say the focus should be on WGWG, but that it shouldn't be ignored in favor of profiling other groups.

2. The stats weren't saying that only 254 white guys were killed in 15 years, it was about the number killed in extremist attacks by white men v. those killed by Muslims. Blacks had nothing to do with this yet for some reason you saw fit to bring it up. "Since 9/11, fatalities from attacks by right-wing extremists — a group of almost exclusively white men — has accounted for 254 fatalities. Meanwhile, Islam-inspired attacks accounted for 50 fatalities over the same period."

3. No matter how many attacks are attributable to Christians, their religion is rarely mentioned as opposed to Muslim attacks. Why? Why not say Arab attacks or African attacks or Indonesian attacks? How about attacks by gender?

4. White gangs have been responsible for thousands of deaths over the years. Google the stats.

You're trying to make excuses for why white guys aren't given the same level of scrutiny as Muslims and blacks and it's pretty easy to see through.
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1.So the comparison is made...and it looks like I'm right

2.White extremists compared to Muslim extremists....so you cherry pick a date to start, omitting 9/11, to get a figure you're comfortable with?

3. That is because the Christian religion is rarely relevant to the attacks, their reasons usually involve the gov. or simple insanity as opposed to the Islamic terrorists that almost
universally cite their religion as a motivating factor and their religions tenets and writings to justify their murder of enemy, innocents and infidels....Gender ?....Islamic terrorists
use men, women, and even children in the attacks....Christians are almost always male perps.

4. your statistics on white gangs I'm not familiar with unless you're referring to the organized crime wave of the 30's .....if not, cite it for me.
Thousands of deaths over the years ?....Black gangs are responsible for thousands of deaths every year recently and I've only been talking about 1 city....I don't know what the
figure would be countrywide....scrutinize all you want....the facts won't change, only your spin.

Incidentally, its hardly fair to only count Muslims attacks inside the US...we are protected by 2 oceans and friendly nations North and South.....its obvious that if they find an easy way
to enter the US the carnage would akin to what its like in places they can travel to with ease....they have brought down planes, taken over ships, and set bombs off all over the
world in their effort to kill more Americans.....thats reality, not bigotry
 
Norah said:
only so much though. I dont think its the primary cause anymore though. I think the reason it stays the way it is in many of these neighborhoods is cultural more than it is racism outside of that community. If a neighborhood that is known to be notoriously bad stays bad for decades then I don't think outside influences are making it stay that way anymore and instead its that neighborhood becoming an incubator basically. The same people stay and never leave because they have an established culture within that community that lends to them staying in power or leaves them stable in that gang life. Who wants to go clean it up when its considered normal in that spot, and who is going to do it? It has to come from within.
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Very astute post......but our lefties are thoroughly indoctrinated into how to use(or over use) the race card, accuse everyone of being a bigot or Islamophobic, etc....
 
christiefan915 said:
Look, if you only want to throw insults I'll bow out of this. I took you at your word that you wanted a discussion but apparently I was wrong.
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I want a discussion that doesn't exclude everything except how do we restrict the ownership of guns among those who obtain them legally......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
so why do you want to talk about gun ownership?.......
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I made two posts about gun ownership. What's your point again?

1. Agreed, nobody (not just young gang members) should own guns illegally.

2. First of all I don't think there should be any violent gangs carrying illegal weapons no matter what the color of the members.


 
christiefan915 said:
Simple answer. Don't watch Morning Joe.
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Why not? It's great to laugh at you.

Christie: So what about when the shooter's white, then you're OK with it, right? You're not? What do you mean? I thought you were OK with whites when they kill people.

LOL, you're Joe's tool
 
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