Name something good religion has caused

Right. Morality is not exclusively founded in religion. But generally, religion knockers seek to undo the moral teaching by debunking the supernatural aspect.

Hey, WM, you used to have such potential as a debator, its shocking to see you use such weak ad hominems....

I must be one of those religious knockers you mentioned. I don't seek to undo any moral teaching, just put it on a sounder ethical basis than 'truth by authority'.

I debunk the supernatural aspect because it is bunkem, a throwback to the pre-Newtonian Aristotelian perspective of the universe.

And people who fight against AA are fighting against wrong, not seeking to perpetuate it.

This demonstrates that 'right and wrong' aren't absolutes. They are a judgement call on a situation, and according to the position of the person doing the judging...
 
AA guarantees racial discrimination. I'm against it. And it's not so evil white men can keep discriminating. It's not a bigoted stance, it's actual respect for the civil rights of all people. Look into it, you self-deceiving, dishonest, windbag.

AA isn't racial discrimination if it addresses an existing racial discrimination.
 
AnyOldIron said:
AA guarantees racial discrimination. I'm against it. And it's not so evil white men can keep discriminating. It's not a bigoted stance, it's actual respect for the civil rights of all people. Look into it, you self-deceiving, dishonest, windbag.

AA isn't racial discrimination if it addresses an existing racial discrimination.
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No. It's still racial discrimination. You may feel it's good racial discrimination , but it's still racial disrimination. The Civil Rights act does not leave room for "good" racial discrimination.

Many times the racial discrimination it is intended to address is merely speculative anyway.
 
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No. It's still racial discrimination. You may feel it's good racial discrimination , but it's still racial disrimination. The Civil Rights act does not leave room for "good" racial discrimination.

Taking people's things is bad, correct?

If a criminal took your things, would it be then wrong if, when caught, the court took the things back from the criminal and gave them back to you?
 
AnyOldIron said:
No. It's still racial discrimination. You may feel it's good racial discrimination , but it's still racial disrimination. The Civil Rights act does not leave room for "good" racial discrimination.

Taking people's things is bad, correct?

If a criminal took your things, would it be then wrong if, when caught, the court took the things back from the criminal and gave them back to you?
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That's returning stolen property. There's a direct connection between that property and the victim.

The racial discrimination of AA intentionally creates a victim, who has nothing to do with other acts of discrimination which may or may not exist.

You want to guarantee a white victim, to guarantee there can be no other victim. Fuck you and your racism.
 
So if discrimination has occurred, it isn't right to address that?

Imagine if had been whites that had suffered discrimination, would you not want the situation rectified?

That isn't racism, its called justice.
 
AnyOldIron said:
So if discrimination has occurred, it isn't right to address that?

Imagine if had been whites that had suffered discrimination, would you not want the situation rectified?

That isn't racism, its called justice.
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It's not right to address it by creating a new victim which had nothing to do with the initial offense. racial revenge is not a good basis for public policy.
 
AnyOldIron said:
What if a person had personal experience that caused them to have faith in what you perceive as unproveable? Would that be considered "blind" faith?

All things are 'unproveable'. Absolute knowledge outside a priori analytics is impossible.

If someone had a person experience that they attributed to the transcendental, then they are probably doing just that... attributing. Don't forget that the transcendental, like horoscopes etc are hangovers from the Aristotelian perspective of the universe that was so comprehensively overturned by the Newtonian revolution.

Faith is the belief, despite what a posteriori evidence might present. It is the suspension of thought, acceptence of dead dogma on the basis of truth by authority.

IMO, the teaching of the use of 'faith' to children constitutes a mild form of child abuse.
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Hence the word "perceive", oh glorious word-splicer.
 
people like anyoldiron seek to undo the layer of culture which makes humanity different than animals. They want to reduce humanity to animalistic reaction patterns, highly amenable to manipulation by the new global elite.

http://www.scripturesforamerica.org/html2/jm0011.htm
The roots of Communist thinking can be found in their own textbook, PSYCHOPOLITICS, which was published in 1933 and taught in the Lenin School of Psychopolitical Warfare, University of Moscow. It states: "The first thing to be degraded in any nation under conquest must be the state of man himself. Nations which have a high ethical tone are difficult to conquer. Their loyalties are hard to shake . . . It is not efficient to attack a nation in such a frame of mind. It is the basic purpose of Psychopolitics to reduce this state of mind to the point where it can be ordered and then enslaved. Thus the first target must be man himself. He must be degraded from a spiritual being to an animalistic reaction pattern. He must think of himself as an animal, capable only of animalistic reactions. He must no longer think of himself, or his fellows, as capable of spiritual endurance or nobility . . . as a result, religion must become unfashionable, by demonstrating . . . that the soul is non-existent, and that man is an animal."
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people like anyoldiron seek to undo the layer of culture which makes humanity different than animals. They want to reduce humanity to animalistic reaction patterns, highly amenable to manipulation by the new global elite.

Watermark, you are certifiable.

Firstly, I am not a communist, nor have I ever been one, even in my hard left days.

I do not have any particular agenda, I am not part of a global elite, I am not trying to reduce humanity to anything.

If you want to differentiate between humans and other animals, then fine, let's have the debate, but you can't sulk if reason or evidence goes against your position. You can't decry reason as being manipulated...

Now, your article is claiming that one thing that differentiates us from the other animals is the notion that we have a 'soul'.

Let's start by examining this....

1. What do you mean by 'soul' &
2. Where do you think the notion of the 'soul' comes from?
 
AnyOldIron said:
people like anyoldiron seek to undo the layer of culture which makes humanity different than animals. They want to reduce humanity to animalistic reaction patterns, highly amenable to manipulation by the new global elite.

Watermark, you are certifiable.

Firstly, I am not a communist, nor have I ever been one, even in my hard left days.

I do not have any particular agenda, I am not part of a global elite, I am not trying to reduce humanity to anything.

If you want to differentiate between humans and other animals, then fine, let's have the debate, but you can't sulk if reason or evidence goes against your position. You can't decry reason as being manipulated...

Now, your article is claiming that one thing that differentiates us from the other animals is the notion that we have a 'soul'.

Let's start by examining this....

1. What do you mean by 'soul' &
2. Where do you think the notion of the 'soul' comes from?
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Religion gives man a focus, a drive, an identity, a feeling of purpose. It may very well all be "fake", but it's survivalistic. you attack this layer of purpose because you seek to animalize man. You probably don't even understand your own indoctrination.
 
Religion gives man a focus, a drive, an identity, a feeling of purpose. It may very well all be "fake", but it's survivalistic.

This is something that I state, that religion is a method by which man derives meaning, in an existence where none is innate. And I don't call it fake, I call it shallow, weak and unsubstantial.

you attack this layer of purpose because you seek to animalize man.

And you are making the claim that humans aren't animals because.....

You probably don't even understand your own indoctrination.

In what way have I been indoctrinated? I don't attend meetings, nor churches, nor temples. I don't have others informing me of my perspective or how to interpret it. So how am I indoctrinated?

As for whether I understand or not, lets put that to the test....

The 'soul'...

What is it? Where did the notion originate?
 
AnyOldIron said:
Religion gives man a focus, a drive, an identity, a feeling of purpose. It may very well all be "fake", but it's survivalistic.

This is something that I state, that religion is a method by which man derives meaning, in an existence where none is innate. And I don't call it fake, I call it shallow, weak and unsubstantial.

you attack this layer of purpose because you seek to animalize man.

And you are making the claim that humans aren't animals because.....

You probably don't even understand your own indoctrination.

In what way have I been indoctrinated? I don't attend meetings, nor churches, nor temples. I don't have others informing me of my perspective or how to interpret it. So how am I indoctrinated?

As for whether I understand or not, lets put that to the test....

The 'soul'...

What is it? Where did the notion originate?
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We're animals with an extra layer of evolved sociality and morality which makes us more effective at working together, thus benefitting every individual. There are people who want to UNDO this, and reduce whole nations to a lower behavioral state, and thus weaken the nation. You're helping them.
 
We're animals with an extra layer of evolved sociality and morality which makes us more effective at working together, thus benefitting every individual.

So you agree that we are animals?


There are people who want to UNDO this, and reduce whole nations to a lower behavioral state, and thus weaken the nation. You're helping them.

Who are???? What 'lower behavioural state' are you refering to? In what way am I helping them?


Reasoning involves giving your conclusion AND the reasons why you believe it....


And you still haven't addressed the 'soul' thing.....
 
AnyOldIron said:
We're animals with an extra layer of evolved sociality and morality which makes us more effective at working together, thus benefitting every individual.

So you agree that we are animals?


There are people who want to UNDO this, and reduce whole nations to a lower behavioral state, and thus weaken the nation. You're helping them.

Who are???? What 'lower behavioural state' are you refering to? In what way am I helping them?


Reasoning involves giving your conclusion AND the reasons why you believe it....


And you still haven't addressed the 'soul' thing.....
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Yes, we're animals, but with the relevant evolved sociality i spoke of.

The lower behavioral state is immorality, lying, cheating, stealing, backstabbing, all the things which keep us from the higher goals we can achieve when we put these sorts of behaviors outside the realm of acceptability.
 
Yes, we're animals, but with the relevant evolved sociality i spoke of.

The lower behavioral state is immorality, lying, cheating, stealing, backstabbing, all the things which keep us from the higher goals we can achieve when we put these sorts of behaviors outside the realm of acceptability.

Do you believe that what is morality is fixed? That wrong is absolute? That lying, for example, is always wrong?

Consider this, if certain lies hadn't been told during WWII, the Germans would have gained a significant advantage and could have won.

Would those lies have kept us from the higher goal of defeating naziism?


And on the other issues...Who are these people you are accusing, and how am I, by constant questioning, helping them?
 
You have agreed that we are animals.

So what differentiates us from other animals?

And how are lying, cheating etc aspects of other animals' natures?

When was the last time you were cheated by a cow, or lied to by a dog?
 
AnyOldIron said:
You have agreed that we are animals.

So what differentiates us from other animals?

And how are lying, cheating etc aspects of other animals' natures?

When was the last time you were cheated by a cow, or lied to by a dog?
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He gave, already, an explanation why he thought humans to be above other animals.
 
He gave, already, an explanation why he thought humans to be above other animals.

That we are social animals? Ok then, what differentiates between us and other high-order social animals?

I'm trying to draw him into discussing the soul, which he brought up in an article he posted a few posts ago.....
 
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