Name something good religion has caused

I have something!

Religion kept alive the antiquated museum-piece Aristotelian view of existence long after Newton blew it to pieces. They keep alive the idea of heavenly aether, of the Earthly substance and the transcendental immaterial, of the notion that what is of the Earth must return to the Earth (the body) and what is of heavenly aether returns to the heavens (soul or spirit), long after they were demonstrated to be without a fraction of truth by Newton.

Maybe religion could be the museum of antiquated ideas. They should campaign for a return of phrenology and bird-sign.....
 
AssHatZombie said:
Quit typing lies! :)

So you're not anti-religion?
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I am not anti-religion per se. I am, however, anti-faith. Blind faith is a very bad thing, in my view. It's demeaning and dangerous. But that's just on the individual level and so not terribly important.

I was addressing what caused us to develop religion and what keeps it going. Vague feelings of spirituality aren't nearly enough to do that, in my view.

Religion is, like almost all human institutions, an exercise in politics and social control.
 
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OrnotBitwise said:
I am not anti-religion per se. I am, however, anti-faith. Blind faith is a very bad thing, in my view. It's demeaning and dangerous. But that's just on the individual level and so not terribly important.

I was addressing what caused us to develop religion and what keeps it going. Vague feelings of spirituality aren't nearly enough to do that, in my view.

Religion is, like almost all human institutions, an exercise in politics and social control.
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What if a person had personal experience that caused them to have faith in what you perceive as unproveable? Would that be considered "blind" faith?
 
OrnotBitwise said:
I am not anti-religion per se. I am, however, anti-faith. Blind faith is a very bad thing, in my view. It's demeaning and dangerous.
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Should toddlers develop blind faith about playing in traffic? Or should they assess the effects of a garbage truck on their cranium firsthand?
 
Damocles said:
What if a person had personal experience that caused them to have faith in what you perceive as unproveable? Would that be considered "blind" faith?
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I am such a person myself, if you're using "faith" as a synonym for "belief." I wasn't.

To me, the word "faith" implies a firm and unshakable belief. It is more than just belief, it is dogmatic belief.

http://m-w.com/dictionary/faith

We can't avoid believing in things for which there is no conclusive proof. As AOI so patiently points out, absolute knowledge is impossible, yet we all accept certain things as "true" simply in order to get on with our lives.

We are not, however, compelled to elevate our beliefs to the status of Divine Revelation. That's where so many religious fall from grace, as it were.

BTW, I've told you all often that I'm not an atheist. I'm really not. I had my own religious epiphany a few years ago, much to my surprise. I'm also not a deist, though I feel more kindly toward them than most other monotheists. :pke:
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Blind faith is a childish trait, so it's entirely appropriate for children to express it.
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People who attack religion generally do so because they want to do things to people which are considered "wrong". you're not bothered by blind faith, you want to do evil things, like enacting genocidal/racist plans. You've already revealed your support of racial discrimination. What else will bubble out of your dementia?
 
AssHatZombie said:
People who attack religion generally do so because they want to do things to people which are considered "wrong". you're not bothered by blind faith, you want to do evil things, like enacting genocidal/racist plans. You've already revealed your support of racial discrimination. What else will bubble out of your dementia?
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As the false prophet Ronald Reagan used to say, there you go again. You're imputing motives when you've not the least idea why I believe what I do. In this particular instance, I've no real agenda, though I doubt you'll accept that.

In fact, I object to certain sects of Christianity -- by no means all, but some -- because they are completely immoral and corrupt. Not only do they want to do evil things but they actively practice them. They abuse their own children horribly, oppress women, stiffle disssent and are violently anti-intellectual. They brutalize people for recreational sex yet have no problem with slavery, racism or plutocratic oppression. There's nothing decent or moral about them.

You see, morality is not necessarily founded in religious belief. Indeed, morality probably predates religious belief. Religion is an insitution evolved to enforce moral conformity and to suppress dissent. It's very effective.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
As the false prophet Ronald Reagan used to say, there you go again. You're imputing motives when you've not the least idea why I believe what I do. In this particular instance, I've no real agenda, though I doubt you'll accept that.

In fact, I object to certain sects of Christianity -- by no means all, but some -- because they are completely immoral and corrupt. Not only do they want to do evil things but they actively practice them. They abuse their own children horribly, oppress women, stiffle disssent and are violently anti-intellectual. They brutalize people for recreational sex yet have no problem with slavery, racism or plutocratic oppression. There's nothing decent or moral about them.

You see, morality is not necessarily founded in religious belief. Indeed, morality probably predates religious belief. Religion is an insitution evolved to enforce moral conformity and to suppress dissent. It's very effective.
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Right. Morality is not exclusively founded in religion. But generally, religion knockers seek to undo the moral teaching by debunking the supernatural aspect.

And people who fight against AA are fighting against wrong, not seeking to perpetuate it.

you're just as hypocritical as those christians gone foul, because you believe some racial discrimination is ok.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Right. Morality is not exclusively founded in religion. But generally, religion knockers seek to undo the moral teaching by debunking the supernatural aspect.
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That's an . . . interesting opinion, I suppose, but I don't see any evidence to suggest that it's true. In fact, I very rarely see anyone attacking religion at all. Around here there's only AOI and he does it for reasons entirely different from what you're asserting.
And people who fight against AA are fighting against wrong, not seeking to perpetuate it.
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i don't care why they think they're doing it. I only care about the effect of their evil, selfish, childish actions. As my grandmother used to say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions . . . and the anti-AA crowd are pounding that pavement at a fast pace.

There is no good reason to oppose affirmative action. It's a profoundly and irredeemably bigoted stance.
you're just as hypocritical as those christians gone foul, because you believe some racial discrimination is ok.
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I believe that without some acknowledgment that there is a problem and some attempt to offset it, racist beliefs will be perpetuated almost indefinitely. Your way of doing things would make you free to not only hate whomever you want but also free to keep them in their place as you so clearly want.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
That's an . . . interesting opinion, I suppose, but I don't see any evidence to suggest that it's true. In fact, I very rarely see anyone attacking religion at all. Around here there's only AOI and he does it for reasons entirely different from what you're asserting.

i don't care why they think they're doing it. I only care about the effect of their evil, selfish, childish actions. As my grandmother used to say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions . . . and the anti-AA crowd are pounding that pavement at a fast pace.

There is no good reason to oppose affirmative action. It's a profoundly and irredeemably bigoted stance.
I believe that without some acknowledgment that there is a problem and some attempt to offset it, racist beliefs will be perpetuated almost indefinitely. Your way of doing things would make you free to not only hate whomever you want but also free to keep them in their place as you so clearly want.
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AA guarantees racial discrimination. I'm against it. And it's not so evil white men can keep discriminating. It's not a bigoted stance, it's actual respect for the civil rights of all people. Look into it, you self-deceiving, dishonest, windbag.
 
What if a person had personal experience that caused them to have faith in what you perceive as unproveable? Would that be considered "blind" faith?

All things are 'unproveable'. Absolute knowledge outside a priori analytics is impossible.

If someone had a person experience that they attributed to the transcendental, then they are probably doing just that... attributing. Don't forget that the transcendental, like horoscopes etc are hangovers from the Aristotelian perspective of the universe that was so comprehensively overturned by the Newtonian revolution.

Faith is the belief, despite what a posteriori evidence might present. It is the suspension of thought, acceptence of dead dogma on the basis of truth by authority.

IMO, the teaching of the use of 'faith' to children constitutes a mild form of child abuse.
 
Should toddlers develop blind faith about playing in traffic? Or should they assess the effects of a garbage truck on their cranium firsthand?

That's not blind faith. Blind faith is a toddler playing in the road, despite the a posteriori evidence that playing in the road is bad for toddler.

Faith is the belief in something despite all evidence.
 
People who attack religion generally do so because they want to do things to people which are considered "wrong".

you're not bothered by blind faith, you want to do evil things, like enacting genocidal/racist plans. You've already revealed your support of racial discrimination. What else will bubble out of your dementia?

What is it with you and the BS ad hominem attacks?

Can you name one incident where someone, motivated by atheism, blew up, or flew a plane into a buidling? Or killed someone?

Now, I'd imagine you'd come up with Stalin or Mao, but keep in mind I said motivated by atheism, not just 'is an atheist'.

Pinochet was a catholic, but his crimes weren't motivated by his religion, but politics...
 
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