NASA: direct proof of man caused GW

[Into the Night]

I believe these type of Deniers are hoping scientists, engineers, technology can just mitigate the problem away without the Deniers ever having to openly confess to being wrong.

You are denying the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

You cannot trap heat.
You cannot trap light.
You cannot trap thermal energy. There is always heat.
You cannot create energy out of nothing.

Your fundamentalist religion in the Church of Global Warming IS the problem.

 

[Into the Night]

In many cases they will die before the worst effects of climate change are felt.

Define 'climate change'. Buzzword fallacy.

And the really tragic thing is that once these effects become pronounced, they are not going away.

Define 'climate change'.

Simply reducing emissions is not going to do that.

Define 'emissions'. Emissions of what? From where?

CO2 must be removed from the atmosphere to accomplish that.

CO2 is not capable of warming the Earth. CO2 is a gas absolutely necessary for life on Earth.

Atmospheric CO2 levels have doubled.

It is not possible to measure the global concentration of CO2. It is not uniformly distributed in the atmosphere. Argument from randU fallacy (made up numbers).

 

[Into the Night]

Floyd’s manner of death was homicide, not accident. Homicide is death at the hands of another. Accident is drug overdose.

Homicide.

Drug overdose.

 

[Into the Night]

Neither M.E. that conducted the autopsies said there was a drug overdose. They BOTH ruled homicide. Write them with your opinion. I’m sure they’ll consider it.

Lie. The autopsy ruled drug overdose.

 

[Into the Night]

From the OP link:

"It may come as a surprise, given the extensive body of evidence connecting humans to climate change, that directly-observed proof of the human impact on the climate had still eluded science. That is, until now.

In a first-of-its-kind study, NASA has calculated the individual driving forces of recent climate change through direct satellite observations. And consistent with what climate models have shown for decades, greenhouse gases and suspended pollution particles in the atmosphere, called aerosols, from the burning of fossil fuels are responsible for the lion's share of modern warming.

In other words, NASA has proven what is driving climate change through direct observations — a gold standard in scientific research."

There goes the argument used by so many deniers that AGW is not proven.

NASA just proved it.

And now, of course, the goal posts will be moved.

Those who have said they don't think we need to do anything about climate change 'because it might cost too much' will come up with new reasons to oppose human progress.

Anything to avoid admitting they were wrong.

Because, in their view, saving face is more important than saving the planet.

They think they are perfect. They 'don't make mistakes.'

Well, not only did they get climate change wrong, but they got their own human nature wrong.

Everybody makes mistakes. And one of the biggest mistakes is never admitting to making mistakes.

When people won't admit to mistakes they never learn from them.

As they fool themselves that they are perfect they cheat themselves out of the wisdom which can only be learned from making mistakes.

Those still denying AGW are also denying themselves intelligence.

Pride goes before the fall.

So don't do that.

Now is the perfect time to just say you were wrong.

Actually, you don't have to admit it to anyone but yourself.

But if you do come out and actually admit this to others you will get the most benefit of the lesson because you will remember it always and never forget it.

Humility is like that. It makes for good lessons.

No, it's not easy, not for snowflakes.

It takes a strong will to improve your character in this way.

But I can certainly say it is worth it.

Worked that way every time I did it.

I've made a lot of mistakes.

If you bury them you tend to forget it and believe whatever BS story your told yourself. You learn no lesson at all. Except perhaps a method to wriggle out of responsibility.

But if you own up to a mistake and make amends, that sticks with you. Makes you want to not repeat it because it's no fun.

This time, it has bigger implications. The future of the planet. The future of your children and grandchildren. And their children and grandchildren. Basically, the future of humanity.

Pretty heavy stuff.

Which is why now would be a really good time to admit this one mistake. No matter what your peer group says. Do you let others do your thinking for you? Or do you think for yourself.

AGW is real. Admit it. Act on it. Join us in saving the human race. Those who come hundreds of years from now will thank you. The same way you revere our nation's founders.

Now, isn't that a good feeling?

Define 'climate change'. Religion is not science.

 

[Into the Night]

Just as I said. It was ruled a homicide. Note the comment on law enforcement subdual and restraint, but the lack of anything about drug overdose.

Nope. Drug overdose.

 

[Into the Night]

.

This paper is nothing but buzzwords, undefined shit, made up numbers, and a denial of the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law. It also denies statistical mathematics and probability mathematics. It uses made up numbers as data.

I would immediately flunk this paper.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

No, you're confusing finite supplies of fossil fuel, which does have physical limits, with renewable energy, which does not.

"Fossil" fuels are renewable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel

That's because petroleum is made from dead plankton and diatoms that sink to the bottom of the ocean where they from frozen methane that is then slowly buried and under heat and pressure turns into oil. The shortcut is something like algae fuels.
Nuclear is available in nearly limitless amounts too. The US alone has over 1,000 years uranium available and several thousand years worth of thorium.

Well, good thing that air currents exist and wind perpetually blows across the planet because of gravity.

But not consistently in any one place. Wind turbines need the right speed of wind to work. Too little and they don't. Too much and they don't.

Good thing the sun won't die for another billion years.

Irrelevant to solar when it's nighttime...

So? Build a lot of them. We have the space.

With solar you can never build enough. For example, if you had every home in Phoenix (5th largest city in the US now) having solar panels on it, the amount returned to the grid at 2 - 3 kwh doesn't meet the output of a single gas turbine (natural gas) peaking plant in Coolidge Arizona. That's more than 250,000 homes. Also, the cost of those arrays today is roughly $10 billion dollars (250,000 x $40,000) or about half of what it would cost to build a new nuclear power plant that provides thousands of times more power than those solar panels. That's how utterly inefficient solar is.
A new nuclear plant would take up 3,000 to 5,000 acres a miniscule fraction of the land needed for solar or wind.

And coal and oil plants can't operate if it gets too hot or too cold...as we have seen in Texas this year.

Bullshit. Those plants simply weren't designed for extreme cold. There are plenty of plants elsewhere in the US that can operate in extreme cold and the ones in Texas can too if modified to do so.

The sun doesn't run out...but oil reserves do.

I already showed this is wrong too.

Nuclear and natural gas would easily meet our energy needs and make electricity cheap and plentiful. Germany right now has one of the highest Kilowatt-hour prices in the world at about $0.36. Their grid is unstable, and their neighbors are tired of Germany dumping their electricity on them.

Germany’s Maxed-Out Grid Is Causing Trouble Across Europe
Northern Germany can’t use all the renewable energy it’s making. Neither can its neighbors.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-stressed-grid-is-causing-trouble-across-europe

Germany’s Green Energy Destabilizing Electric Grids

https://www.instituteforenergyresea...ys-green-energy-destabilizing-electric-grids/

Germany’s Renewables Revolution Destabilises Neighbours’ Electrical Grid

https://www.thegwpf.com/germanys-renewables-revolution-threatens-neighbours-with-grid-collapse/

German Electricity Prices Soar, Now Most Expensive In Europe …Taxes, Green Surcharges Make Up 53.6% Of Price!

https://notrickszone.com/2020/10/06...taxes-green-surcharges-make-up-53-6-of-price/

The taxes and surcharges are in good part to pay for their "smart" grid and subsidies on wind and solar...

Der Spiegel: How German Electricity Became A Luxury Item.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/112759355

Power prices in Germany are among the highest in Europe, not least due to the costs arising from the launch of renewable energy sources

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/what-german-households-pay-power

And because they dumped nuclear and natural gas, Germans are increasingly using environmentally unfriendly pellet stoves to heat their homes while the nation is building more "clean coal" power plants to make up for the loss of nuclear...

https://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/01/24/germany-announces-carbon-emission-rise-second-year-row/
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-doubles-co2-emissions-pricing-cop25/a-51696203
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesc...ng-germanys-carbon-emissions/?sh=482745d68e15

Which will only get better as it's developed and commercialized further. The ceiling for renewables is high, if not infinite, but the ceiling for fossil fuels is low and is getting lower each day more is extracted from the reserves.

If solar were 100% efficient it couldn't supply our energy needs. The watt density of sunlight alone, along with the fact the sun doesn't shine half the time, makes that reality.

Also, oil extraction isn't even really worth it anymore...neither is natural gas.

Since 2015, over 200 natural gas companies have gone bankrupt to the tune of over $130 BILLION.

Wrong. It is only that the extraction process is so efficient that the price of natural gas has dropped to a point where it is unprofitable due to its low cost.

How many renewable companies went under since 2015?

That's opposed to "green energy" companies that have gone bankrupt regardless of the fact that they received massive government subsidies and tax breaks.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Rest-in-Peace-The-List-of-Deceased-Solar-Companies
https://money.cnn.com/2012/10/22/news/economy/obama-energy-bankruptcies/index.html
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/05/19/bankruptcies-continue-in-solar-industry.aspx
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/01...as-solar-and-wind-energy-with-pge-bankruptcy/
https://www.computerworld.com/artic...went-from-no-1-to-the-edge-of-bankruptcy.html

Solar bankruptcies alone since 2015 are well north of $200 billion, and much of that was taxpayer dollars. That doesn't include wind bankruptcies...

It’s-A-Knockout: European Wind Industry’s Total Collapse: Firms Bankrupt & Thousands Sacked

https://stopthesethings.com/2019/12...tal-collapse-firms-bankrupt-thousands-sacked/

In Texas wind power is driving the power market into bankruptcy because it is heavily subsidized, just like is happening in Germany and Europe.
https://www.masterresource.org/windpower-problems/ercot-harmed-predatory-renewables-ii/

Wind-Energy Sector Gets $176 Billion Worth of Crony Capitalism

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/06/wind-energy-subsidies-billions/

Panda Temple bankruptcy could chill new gas plant buildout in ERCOT market

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/pa...ew-gas-plant-buildout-in-ercot-market/442582/

They are one of the bigger wind power producers in Texas.

Solar and wind simply don't work because they are cost ineffective.

You want solar on your house? The installed price of a system is $40,000 to $60,000 on average. The federal tax break is about $16,000 on that. State tax breaks vary. Home solar will save an owner about $30 to $50 a month over paying for electricity on average. Assuming a 20 year service life on the array, that amounts to $12,000 saved over just buying your electricity from the grid or about $600 a year.
As I pointed out, putting panels on every home in a large city would run into the tens of billions in cost, far exceeding the cost of building large power plants and just supplying the electrical power.
With those massive government subsidies nobody would do solar on their home. It is only government bribes with tax dollars that barely make solar attractive.

Worse, in most older homes you can spend less than $12,000 and save more than $30 to $50 a month on electricity just by increasing the energy efficiency of your home. New double pane windows, better insulation, better weather stripping, caulking air infiltration locations, and that sort of thing will do it for an old home. Best, you can do it a little at a time rather than take out a 10 to 15 year loan on solar panels.

Solar and wind are utterly stupid.

 

[Into the Night]

PLEASE SHOW US ALL THE TEST, UTILIZING SCIENTIFIC METHOD, PROVING THE THERMAL DYNAMIC PROPERTIES OF .0004 (400PPM) ATMOSPEHRIC CONCENTRATIONS OF CO2;

THE "SCIENTISTS" OF NASA SEEM TO HAVE OMITTED THAT, AND POSTED A BUNCH OF THEORETICAL IDEAS AND CLAIMS, INSTEAD.


A "SHOW OF HANDS" =/= "SCIENTIFIC FACT".

They can't. There is no theory of science here. It is a fundamentalist religion. I call it the Church of Global Warming.

 

[Into the Night]

You know the woman is braindead, she has all these topics on continuous loop, press a button and the bullshit flows in a continuous stream. Gavin Schmidt, the head of NASA GISS, is not a climatologist but a mathematician who lives and breathes climate models.

There is no such thing as 'climate science' or 'climatology'. Climate is a subject term used to generally describe prevailing conditions. It has no values associated with it. You can't measure a 'climate'. She denies mathematics too, specifically statistical math and probability math. She is also using random numbers as data.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

They can't. There is no theory of science here. It is a fundamentalist religion. I call it the Church of Global Warming.

That should be Church of Gorebal Warming. This is the religious and irrational belief in AlGore (one word) as the head prophet (profit?) of Global Warming hysteria by retards and conspiracy theorists on the Leftist environmental front.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The laws of physics is not pseudo science. You are also denying the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

You cannot trap heat. You cannot accumulate heat. You cannot trap light. You cannot create energy out of nothing. No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth.

Jesus fucking Christ. Obviously your family has money.

How else could an insane person like you access the Internet daily if you didn't have caretakers with money?

 

[Into the Night]

"Fossil" fuels are renewable.

There is no such thing as a 'fossil' fuel. Fossils don't burn.
Oil is renewable. The Fischer-Tropsche process works. It occurs naturally too, using conditions underground. All you need is carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide, hydrogen, heat, pressure, and an iron catalyst...all conditions naturally underground. The Earth is a giant Fischer-Tropche reactor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel

Wikipedia discarded on sight. You cannot use it as a reference with me. Their articles are too often incomplete, biased, or just plain wrong.

That's because petroleum is made from dead plankton and diatoms that sink to the bottom of the ocean where they from frozen methane that is then slowly buried and under heat and pressure turns into oil.

Nope. It's made from carbon dioxide and hydrogen. Only takes a few hours too.

The shortcut is something like algae fuels.

Nah. No point.

Nuclear is available in nearly limitless amounts too.

True. It only requires the will to do so. Unfortunately, it is not a mobile power plant.

The US alone has over 1,000 years uranium available and several thousand years worth of thorium.

Also true.

But not consistently in any one place.

Doesn't matter. We have this thing called trucks and trains.

Wind turbines need the right speed of wind to work. Too little and they don't. Too much and they don't.

True. They are dangerous too. If the governor fails on one of these things or a blade becomes unbalanced due to icing or debris, the machine catastrophically fails, throwing debris a good mile away.

Irrelevant to solar when it's nighttime...

Solar panels require ballasting. So does wind power. This usually takes the form of batteries. Not cheap.

With solar you can never build enough. For example, if you had every home in Phoenix (5th largest city in the US now) having solar panels on it, the amount returned to the grid at 2 - 3 kwh doesn't meet the output of a single gas turbine (natural gas) peaking plant in Coolidge Arizona. That's more than 250,000 homes. Also, the cost of those arrays today is roughly $10 billion dollars (250,000 x $40,000) or about half of what it would cost to build a new nuclear power plant that provides thousands of times more power than those solar panels. That's how utterly inefficient solar is.
A new nuclear plant would take up 3,000 to 5,000 acres a miniscule fraction of the land needed for solar or wind.

Quite right. It will produce a hell of a lot more power too, being much cheaper watt for watt than either wind or solar.

Bullshit. Those plants simply weren't designed for extreme cold. There are plenty of plants elsewhere in the US that can operate in extreme cold and the ones in Texas can too if modified to do so.

Coal and oil power plants can operate in any weather, if you design for it.

I already showed this is wrong too.

Nuclear and natural gas would easily meet our energy needs and make electricity cheap and plentiful. Germany right now has one of the highest Kilowatt-hour prices in the world at about $0.36. Their grid is unstable, and their neighbors are tired of Germany dumping their electricity on them.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-stressed-grid-is-causing-trouble-across-europe
https://www.instituteforenergyresea...ys-green-energy-destabilizing-electric-grids/
https://www.thegwpf.com/germanys-renewables-revolution-threatens-neighbours-with-grid-collapse/
https://notrickszone.com/2020/10/06...taxes-green-surcharges-make-up-53-6-of-price/
The taxes and surcharges are in good part to pay for their "smart" grid and subsidies on wind and solar...

It's kinda fair though. Germany has been paying for the welfare party of Italy, Greece, Spain, and France for years.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/112759355
https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/what-german-households-pay-power
And because they dumped nuclear and natural gas, Germans are increasingly using environmentally unfriendly pellet stoves to heat their homes while the nation is building more "clean coal" power plants to make up for the loss of nuclear...

At least they are new plants. Germany has lots of coal. It might as well use it. It is possible to burn coal quite cleanly now.

https://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/01/24/germany-announces-carbon-emission-rise-second-year-row/
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-doubles-co2-emissions-pricing-cop25/a-51696203
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesc...ng-germanys-carbon-emissions/?sh=482745d68e15
If solar were 100% efficient it couldn't supply our energy needs. The watt density of sunlight alone, along with the fact the sun doesn't shine half the time, makes that reality.

True. Solar power is the most expensive power source, watt for watt, than any other form of electrical power.

It does have certain limited uses though, particularly where one is only needing to generate small amounts and is not collected to an electrical grid (such as RVers).

Wrong. It is only that the extraction process is so efficient that the price of natural gas has dropped to a point where it is unprofitable due to its low cost.

Natural gas is also found typically in oil deposits. It too is a renewable fuel, using the same Fischer-Tropsche process, which naturally occurs underground.

That's opposed to "green energy" companies that have gone bankrupt regardless of the fact that they received massive government subsidies and tax breaks.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Rest-in-Peace-The-List-of-Deceased-Solar-Companies
https://money.cnn.com/2012/10/22/news/economy/obama-energy-bankruptcies/index.html
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/05/19/bankruptcies-continue-in-solar-industry.aspx
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/01...as-solar-and-wind-energy-with-pge-bankruptcy/
https://www.computerworld.com/artic...went-from-no-1-to-the-edge-of-bankruptcy.html

Solar bankruptcies alone since 2015 are well north of $200 billion, and much of that was taxpayer dollars. That doesn't include wind bankruptcies...
https://stopthesethings.com/2019/12...tal-collapse-firms-bankrupt-thousands-sacked/

In Texas wind power is driving the power market into bankruptcy because it is heavily subsidized, just like is happening in Germany and Europe.
https://www.masterresource.org/windpower-problems/ercot-harmed-predatory-renewables-ii/
https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/06/wind-energy-subsidies-billions/
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/pa...ew-gas-plant-buildout-in-ercot-market/442582/
They are one of the bigger wind power producers in Texas.

Solar and wind simply don't work because they are cost ineffective.

You want solar on your house? The installed price of a system is $40,000 to $60,000 on average. The federal tax break is about $16,000 on that. State tax breaks vary. Home solar will save an owner about $30 to $50 a month over paying for electricity on average. Assuming a 20 year service life on the array, that amounts to $12,000 saved over just buying your electricity from the grid or about $600 a year.

These numbers are about right.

As I pointed out, putting panels on every home in a large city would run into the tens of billions in cost, far exceeding the cost of building large power plants and just supplying the electrical power.

It won't supply the needs of a city anyway.

With those massive government subsidies nobody would do solar on their home. It is only government bribes with tax dollars that barely make solar attractive.

Again, true. Another problem with home solar panels is that it makes it impossible to get up on the roof and service it and clean it. You can't walk on solar panels. It cracks them. The wiring and panels are exposed to weather and critter damage as well. In the deserts, sand blasting of the panels is a real problem. This reduces their efficiency. In moist climates, moss and other plants can and do grow on the panels, and they are difficult to clean.

Worse, in most older homes you can spend less than $12,000 and save more than $30 to $50 a month on electricity just by increasing the energy efficiency of your home. New double pane windows, better insulation, better weather stripping, caulking air infiltration locations, and that sort of thing will do it for an old home. Best, you can do it a little at a time rather than take out a 10 to 15 year loan on solar panels.

Good advice. It's a lot cheaper than solar panels on the roof anyway.

Solar and wind are utterly stupid.

I quite agree.

There are limited cases where wind or solar make sense, such as remote locations where their use is limited to specific needs such as pumping water for crops and the like.

 

[Into the Night]

Jesus fucking Christ. Obviously your family has money.

How else could an insane person like you access the Internet daily if you didn't have caretakers with money?

I make my own money. I own my own business. We make instrumentation for the industrial, medical, aerospace, and entertainment industries. These instruments are sold world wide. Some of them probably made that toilet paper in your bathroom.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I make my own money. I own my own business. We make instrumentation for the industrial, medical, aerospace, and entertainment industries. These instruments are sold world wide. Some of them probably made that toilet paper in your bathroom.

Awesome. Aside from a few retired folks like myself, JPP is full of rich, powerful and successful men like yourself with nothing better to do but chit-chat on JPP. LOL

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That should be Church of Gorebal Warming. This is the religious and irrational belief in AlGore (one word) as the head prophet (profit?) of Global Warming hysteria by retards and conspiracy theorists on the Leftist environmental front.

Some fucking assholes believe that shit, but NASA speaks the truth...and anyone who disagrees should prove why:

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

 

[Into the Night]

That should be Church of Gorebal Warming. This is the religious and irrational belief in AlGore (one word) as the head prophet (profit?) of Global Warming hysteria by retards and conspiracy theorists on the Leftist environmental front.

The Church of Global Warming worships the goddess Gia. The Holy Gas sees all, and reveals Man's sins. The Son is Al Gore, put to death by hanging chad but brought back to life from time to time to say something stupid.

 

[Into the Night]

Jesus fucking Christ. Obviously your family has money.

I have plenty of money.

How else could an insane person like you

Psychoquackery.

access the Internet daily if you didn't have caretakers with money?

I make my own money.

Since you are also here daily, you are skewered by your own argument.

 

[Into the Night]

Awesome. Aside from a few retired folks like myself, JPP is full of rich, powerful and successful men like yourself with nothing better to do but chit-chat on JPP. LOL

Jealousy.

 

[Neoclitorus]

it’s over



You believed the lies of wealthy fucks and sold yourself out to them




Dumb bastages

bezos and gates also sell agw lies. you sold out to them.