Neil deGrasse Tyson: "I am not an atheist!"

Cypress said:
A tax on a church verses a tax on a religion is a distinction without a difference.

I guess this discussion is over because you can't tell me if this federal law was passed on a whim, or whether there is any underlying first amendment issue.

I suspect the constitutional directive that congress shall pass no law abridging the free exercise of religion has everything to do with this tax exemption.
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I favor disallowing the tax-exempt status simply because it's a religion. OTOH, if it's operating as a charity, I support that exemption.


churchesandtaxes.procon.org

Should Churches Remain Tax Exempt? 12 Pros and Cons

Proponets say exempting churches from taxation upholds the separation of church and state. Opponents say churches receive special treatment from the IRS beyond what other nonprofits receive.
churchesandtaxes.procon.org churchesandtaxes.procon.org
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I am Zen....we dont have any Gods......but I have used the term GodSpeed here and I have explained why.
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How do you know there are no gods? What evidence proves that there can be no supreme beings?

The faith it takes to be an Atheist exceeds that which is required by theists.

The truth is that none of us knows - we may never know.
 
Commander Dutch said:
I favor disallowing the tax-exempt status simply because it's a religion. OTOH, if it's operating as a charity, I support that exemption.


churchesandtaxes.procon.org

Should Churches Remain Tax Exempt? 12 Pros and Cons

Proponets say exempting churches from taxation upholds the separation of church and state. Opponents say churches receive special treatment from the IRS beyond what other nonprofits receive.
churchesandtaxes.procon.org churchesandtaxes.procon.org
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Thanks.

I don't have enough data and knowledge to be able to have a well founded opinion. I don't really know the tax code, and I don't really understand the first amendment constitutional implications of taxing religious activities.
 
Ross Dolan said:
Atheism, like theism, is essentially a belief system. The entire notion of using "atheist" as a self-descriptor is predicated on "belief"...which, as I have mentioned often, when talking about the REALITY of existence...is nothing more than a guess.

Atheists just do not want to acknowledge the belief that predicate their use of the descriptor.

Other than that...nothing wrong with someone describing him/herself as an atheist. Might even be correct in their belief (guess).

Might be wrong.

No way to know right now.
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I liked what you wrote about labels being too ambivalent, and just describing what you believe.

Neil seems to be saying that the dictionary definition is less important than how one acts behaves, and says.
 
Cypress said:
Thanks.

I don't have enough data and knowledge to be able to have a well founded opinion. I don't really know the tax code, and I don't really understand the first amendment constitutional implications of taxing religious activities.
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As previously noted, taxing the religion itself as a business might be sketchy, but taxing their property or business actions would be fair.

If the government enforced the 501c3 restrictions, I'd be happy with that.

Exemption Requirements - 501(c)(3) Organizations | Internal Revenue Service

Review a description of exemption requirements for organizations under Internal Revenue Code section 501(c)(3).
www.irs.gov www.irs.gov
Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. For a detailed discussion, see Political and Lobbying Activities. For more information about lobbying activities by charities, see the article Lobbying Issues PDF; for more information about political activities of charities, see the FY-2002 CPE topic Election Year Issues PDF.

www.law.cornell.edu

First Amendment

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu
 
Cypress said:
It's really funny that Neil got a bunch of nasty messages from atheists irate that he used the word Godspeed to his astronaut friend :ROFLMAO:

Perry the PhD, please don't pretend you are traveling the high road and supposedly are above the fray of the militant atheists that Neil is talking about. You routinely equate religious belief with believing in invisible elephants and polka dotted leprechauns.
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That's your problem. You take any disagreement to mean I'm some warpath atheist. You clearly don't understand how to debate a point. I would not consider myself a militant atheist because I NEVER WANT TO DECONVERT ANYONE. I have no interest in making new atheists. I just like discussing religion.

Clearly you don't like to question religion. Not sure why, given your agnostic stance, but it is clear you don't like it. And you get bent when someone asks a simple question.

That is 100% your problem.

Cypress said:
Holy rollers that threaten people with hell are definitely more annoying.
But atheists screaming that all religious people are idiots are a close second. (y)
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I do not think religious people are idiots. As I've said about a billion times on this forum I have almost exclusively Christian friends whom I love and respect. I even like a great deal of the Christian message.

But you would have to honestly read my posts and not continually lie about my positions. That's your thing. Again, I don't know why you do it. You can't argue against someone without making it a personal attack.

Strange.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I am Zen....we dont have any Gods......but I have used the term GodSpeed here and I have explained why.
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@Cypress lost his shit after I mentioned my "spiritual path" when I described my deconversion from Christianity to atheism. Some people will not allow the use of religious-tinged words by atheists. They arbitrarily wall off the richness of the English language based on their cartoon views of atheism.

So when Neil talked about his experience it rang true most assuredly. There are posters on here who would lose their shit if they saw Neil say "Godspeed".
 
Obtenebrator said:
That's your problem. You take any disagreement to mean I'm some warpath atheist. You clearly don't understand how to debate a point. I would not consider myself a militant atheist because I NEVER WANT TO DECONVERT ANYONE. I have no interest in making new atheists. I just like discussing religion.

Clearly you don't like to question religion. Not sure why, given your agnostic stance, but it is clear you don't like it. And you get bent when someone asks a simple question.

That is 100% your problem.



I do not think religious people are idiots. As I've said about a billion times on this forum I have almost exclusively Christian friends whom I love and respect. I even like a great deal of the Christian message.

But you would have to honestly read my posts and not continually lie about my positions. That's your thing. Again, I don't know why you do it. You can't argue against someone without making it a personal attack.

Strange.
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^^^
Perry PhD reveals himself to be easily triggered....again.
 
Obtenebrator said:
@Cypress lost his shit after I mentioned my "spiritual path" when I described my deconversion from Christianity to atheism. Some people will not allow the use of religious-tinged words by atheists. They arbitrarily wall off the richness of the English language based on their cartoon views of atheism.

So when Neil talked about his experience it rang true most assuredly. There are posters on here who would lose their shit if they saw Neil say "Godspeed".
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I've never seen @Cypress lose "his shit". At least not like your previous post.
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Obtenebrator said:
That's your problem. You take any disagreement to mean I'm some warpath atheist. You clearly don't understand how to debate a point. I would not consider myself a militant atheist because I NEVER WANT TO DECONVERT ANYONE. I have no interest in making new atheists. I just like discussing religion.

Clearly you don't like to question religion. Not sure why, given your agnostic stance, but it is clear you don't like it. And you get bent when someone asks a simple question.

That is 100% your problem.



I do not think religious people are idiots. As I've said about a billion times on this forum I have almost exclusively Christian friends whom I love and respect. I even like a great deal of the Christian message.

But you would have to honestly read my posts and not continually lie about my positions. That's your thing. Again, I don't know why you do it. You can't argue against someone without making it a personal attack.

Strange.
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Obtenebrator said:
@Cypress lost his shit after I mentioned my "spiritual path" when I described my deconversion from Christianity to atheism. Some people will not allow the use of religious-tinged words by atheists. They arbitrarily wall off the richness of the English language based on their cartoon views of atheism.

So when Neil talked about his experience it rang true most assuredly. There are posters on here who would lose their shit if they saw Neil say "Godspeed".
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A lot of it tends to be a deliberate effort to delegitimize and kill Western Culture, which is very wrapped up with Christianity.

I am not having it....I am not a Christian and I studied the ways of the East....but I am a Western Man....I will continue to use traditional Western terms, even if they also be Christian.
 
Ross Dolan said:
Atheism, like theism, is essentially a belief system.
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Seems you have stumbled upon pure empiricism. David Hume teaches us that all of existence is merely experience and that unless you can experience something you can have no knowledge of it whatsoever. For instance, if a light switch is flipped and a light across the room comes on you can't really know for certain that there was a necessary causal relationship. You would have to experience every movement of every electron in the chain all the way from switch to light. Because no matter how many times you flip the switch and the light comes on it could always be random chance. You cannot know for certain.

This is fine insofar as it is the logical extreme of empiricism. It is also usually why few follow it that extreme.

However your position seems to be very much like that. People who FAIL TO BELIEVE in some random claim are practicing a "belief" regardless of the absence of any evidence for that claim.

Ross Dolan said:
The entire notion of using "atheist" as a self-descriptor is predicated on "belief"...which, as I have mentioned often, when talking about the REALITY of existence...is nothing more than a guess.
Click to expand...

Then you only "believe" that dropping your keys will cause them to fall to the ground. You only "believe" that there is a necessary causal connection between a light switch and the light coming on. You only "believe" that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. You only "believe" everything in your life.

I'm OK with you claiming that. But I have my doubts that you actually LIVE it.

Ross Dolan said:
Atheists just do not want to acknowledge the belief that predicate their use of the descriptor.
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There is a mystical creature called the Zybox that lives in your state. Now you have been told this you must BELIEVE it to be as likely as not.

If you don't believe in it, then you are merely practicing a "belief". Is that a fair description of your new position on the Zybox?

 
Obtenebrator said:
That's your problem. You take any disagreement to mean I'm some warpath atheist. You clearly don't understand how to debate a point. I would not consider myself a militant atheist because I NEVER WANT TO DECONVERT ANYONE. I have no interest in making new atheists. I just like discussing religion.

Clearly you don't like to question religion. Not sure why, given your agnostic stance, but it is clear you don't like it. And you get bent when someone asks a simple question.

That is 100% your problem.



I do not think religious people are idiots. As I've said about a billion times on this forum I have almost exclusively Christian friends whom I love and respect. I even like a great deal of the Christian message.

But you would have to honestly read my posts and not continually lie about my positions. That's your thing. Again, I don't know why you do it. You can't argue against someone without making it a personal attack.

Strange.
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It's unfortunate you listened to Neil deGrasse Tyson, and assumed he was talking about you.
Do you believe the world revolves around you?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I am Zen....we dont have any Gods......but I have used the term GodSpeed here and I have explained why.
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Claiming to be Zen is what Americans who don't actually think much about spirituality, transcendence, or the nature of being like to say, because there is a certain urban chic to it that movie stars, urban hipsters, and metrosexuals find appealing
 
Cypress said:
Claiming to be Zen is what Americans who don't actually think much about spirituality, transcendence, or the nature of being like to claim, because there is a certain urban chic to it that movie stars, urban hipsters, and metrosexuals find appealing
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Says the constant liar.
 
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