My prefrontal cortex, which as I understand is the part of the brain that organizes sensory data and forms conscious thought. Obviously, my pancreas gland is not directly involved in organizing data into structured conscious thinking.
Neuroscientist loses a 25-year bet on consciousness — to a philosopher
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ZenMode
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You said you consciously create some thoughts. How is that happening without something doing the creating?
So, if I ask you to think of 5 movies and the names of movies start appearing in consciousness, what makes you believe you consciously creates them vs them just appearing in consciousness beyond your control? Do you know the movie names before they appear in consciousness?
That is your conceptual problem. You are obsessed with physically locating a self.
I cannot imagine any human being able to function according to your theory of the mind.
ZenMode
Well-known member
Right. That part of your brain may create conscious thoughts, but what is the "you" that is creating thoughts.
(See example above in post to Hume)
ZenMode
Well-known member
Also @Cypress
So, if I ask you to think of 5 movies and the names of movies start appearing in consciousness, what makes you believe you consciously created them vs them just appearing in consciousness beyond your control? Do you know what the movie names will be before they appear in consciousness?
Like I said, you believe some alien being is forcing you to act. This is very bizarre to me.
That is just memory and recall. Not sure why this is mysterious to you.
ZenMode
Well-known member
It's not mysterious.
Do you know what the names of the movies will be before they appear in consciousness? If you don't, which none of us do, then what makes you believe you consciously created them?
I can recall something from memory. Seems uncomplicated.
I don't create content merely by memory.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
Neuroscientist loses a 25-year bet on consciousness — to a philosopher
Will we ever unravel the mystery of consciousness? Two academics made a 25-year bet on it. The scientist lost.
Christof Koch wagered David Chalmers 25 years ago that researchers would learn how the brain achieves consciousness by now. But the quest continues.
What was the nature of the bet? Neuroscientist Christof Koch and philosopher David Chalmers bet 25 years ago on whether science would have an explanation for consciousness by now. Tests of the two leading theories of consciousness revealed that both are incomplete.
Chalmers’ “easy” problem of identifying neural correlates of consciousness proved more complex than expected, with crucial aspects like self-awareness overlooked in studies.
The “hard” problem of how brain processes create subjective conscious experience remains unsolved — and will remain that way for a very long time.
Neuroscientist loses a 25-year bet on consciousness — to a philosopher
Will we ever unravel the mystery of consciousness? Two academics made a 25-year bet on it. The scientist lost.bigthink.com
Cool. It will turn out to be organic, of course. Maybe a combination of neurons and neural density, neurochemicals, processing speed?
We know that a blow to the head can make us unconscious. But why?
ZenMode
Well-known member
Or, things can be recalled from memory when an external event triggers it. I asked you to think of 5 movies and, if you decided to actually think of 5 movies (that decision is also based on thoughts that are out of your control), you don't know what movies will appear in your consciousness before they appear in your consciousness. Your brain is generating names, a process over which you have no visibility or control, and pushing those names into consciousness.
You aren't free to pick the movie names. If I gave you a week to write down every movie name you could remember, and your brain never pushed Wizard of Oz into your consciousness, you didn't have free will to remember Wizard of Oz.
If you believe your self awareness is an illusion that's your choice.
My self awareness feels self evident to me, and is manifested by properties we do not yet understand in the prefrontal cortex and hippocampus, which seem to be where conscious thinking and memory are fixated.
You are just talking about memory. I can recall swimming on the beach when I was 7 years old. I can recall lots of things.
ZenMode
Well-known member
I'm talking about concious thought. Every decision you make is based on a thought, or series of thoughts, that result in action or inaction. You don't know what movie names are going to appear in consciousness any more than any other thought you have which results in an action. If you're trying to decide between chocolate and vanilla ice cream, your decision will be made based on thoughts that you no more consciously created than the movie names. That is the case because there is no self that can create thoughts. Thoughts are just happening. We don't control them. We have no idea what they will be until they enter consciousness.
Then I have no idea how you function day to day. Sounds like psychosis.
ZenMode
Well-known member
I agree. Everyone feels like there is a self. Some things sitting behind our eyes that is making decisions, feeling feelings, thinking thoughts. If you really pay attention to the experience of thinking, you'll realize that you have no idea what your next thought is going to be until it appears in consciousness.
You believe that. Most philosophers do not believe that.
Descartes called himself a "thinking thing" or "thing that thinks." Not a self, a thinking thing.