Neuroscientist loses a 25-year bet on consciousness — to a philosopher

Dutch Uncle said:
Understood. My point was to clarify that there's more to the Universe than human beings.

We used to think the Earth was the center of the Universe and anyone who disagreed was punished for it. Example: Galileo. :)
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You're right.
Galileo might be worth a thread someday, because what happened to him was as much related to the politics of the Protestant reformation as much as anything else.

I think when we talk about morality, consciousness, free will there is an unspoken agreement we are by implication limiting the discussion to humans.
 
Cypress said:
You're right.
Galileo might be worth a thread someday, because what happened to him was as much related to the politics of the Protestant reformation as much as anything else.

I think when we talk about morality, consciousness, free will there is an unspoken agreement we are by implication limiting the discussion to humans.
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It will be true until the Vogon's show up to demolish the Earth for a hyperspace bypass, then we'll have to expand our viewpoint. :D

Interesting point about Galileo and the Protestant reformation. I always saw it as the beginning of science conflicting with Catholic European dominance.
 
ZenMode said:
Do you find yourself able to know thoughts before you think them
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Hume said:
This sentence has no meaning.
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It does. By claiming that you consciously generate your thoughts, which is what you are claiming, you are claiming to be able to somehow know your thoughts before your brain makes you consciously aware of them.

And I say "you" just as a common reference, not because there is a self, sitting behind your eyes, to generate thoughts in the first place.
 
Hume said:
A thought only exists such that you are aware of it.
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Incorrect. Thoughts exist in the brain before they enter consciousness. That's what the research in the linked article was pointing out.

You have no visibility or control over the neurological activity that generates thoughts, recreates memories, etc. Your conscious awareness of a thought is the result of those actions that you have no visibility to or control over.
 
ZenMode said:
It does. By claiming that you consciously generate your thoughts, which is what you are claiming, you are claiming to be able to somehow know your thoughts before your brain makes you consciously aware of them.

And I say "you" just as a common reference, not because there is a self, sitting behind your eyes, to generate thoughts in the first place.
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You are using the idea of selfconsciousness to refute selfconsciousness.
 
ZenMode said:
Incorrect. Thoughts exist in the brain before they enter consciousness. That's what the research in the linked article was pointing out.

You have no visibility or control over the neurological activity that generates thoughts, recreates memories, etc. Your conscious awareness of a thought is the result of those actions that you have no visibility to.
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Seems like mystical religion. God puts thoughts in our brain and we can only be aware of them.
 
Hume said:
Nothing you said has anything to do with neuroscience.
Thought is only the conscious apprehension.
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The thought is created in our brain before it exists in our consciousness. That is what I'm saying and that is what the research, which I linked to twice, reflects.
 
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