New plan for Democracy.

christiefan915 said:
On one hand, I get all that. On the other hand, I think it shows how little knowledge magas have about policy, government and the Constitution, and how easily they fell under the spell of a snake oil salesman.

I also think "personal shortcomings" downplays trump's character. He's a convicted criminal, a felon. Repubs had a number of non-felonious candidates they could have chosen who were just as trumpy as Donald but who had more smarts.
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What you leave out is there are a good number of people in this country for whom politics doesn't run their life. They aren't political ideologues or partisans like many of us here.

And it's always far more fun to point out the faults of the other side than look in the mirror at ourselves. And for Democrats why did more Latino, Black and Asian people vote for Trump this time than in '20? Is it because they're all racist and sexist? I know some Dems are trying to claim that but is a facile try and make yourself feel good type of response.
 
christiefan915 said:
On one hand, I get all that. On the other hand, I think it shows how little knowledge magas have about policy, government and the Constitution, and how easily they fell under the spell of a snake oil salesman.

I also think "personal shortcomings" downplays trump's character. He's a convicted criminal, a felon. Repubs had a number of non-felonious candidates they could have chosen who were just as trumpy as Donald but who had more smarts.
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I'll throw this out as well because you were on the board at the time. I went back and read some old posts from the '07 - '09 time frame. The gist being liberals on the board were ripping on Republicans for being a bunch of neocons and supporters of free trade (which was equated to carrying about the rich and regular Americans) and there was all this talk that the Republican Party was dying.

Now look at it today. Most of the neocons became Democrats once Trump took over and started with his more isolationist America first rhetoric. And Trump started speaking out against free trade and promoting tariffs. And you still had people on the left saying the Republican Party is dead etc. (prior to last week).

It's the nature of the beast I suppose, partisans are never going to like the opposition when in the middle of the battle.
 
christiefan915 said:
I read this on Politico and couldn't agree more. It's a really good article.

"Michigan state Sen. Mallory McMorrow, like others, said that “any Democrat” would’ve lost Tuesday night because it’s about “something much bigger,” and ruled out sexism as a deciding factor. But others disagreed. Democratic pollster Angie Kuefler, who worked on several abortion rights initiatives in recent years, said Trump “explicitly weaponized gender and purposely tried to activate men in a traditional masculinity-focused way.”

“We don’t want to say it publicly, a woman can’t get elected,” Kuefler said. “But what else are we supposed to take away from this moment? I hope this is unique to women running against Trump.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/11/12/rubio-news-triggers-maga-backlash-00189024
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The Left NEVER gets why they lost. Like religious fanatics they think their ideas cannot possibly be the reason they were rejected. What they never get is they are a distinct, but very vocal, minority and when their shit ideas piss enough people of, as they just did, they get booted from office.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The Left NEVER gets why they lost. Like religious fanatics they think their ideas cannot possibly be the reason they were rejected. What they never get is they are a distinct, but very vocal, minority and when their shit ideas piss enough people of, as they just did, they get booted from office.
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Oh, please. The right does the same thing whenever they lose. I always hear about how stupid voters are when Dems win - or how Dems only win when they "cheat."
 
cawacko said:
What you leave out is there are a good number of people in this country for whom politics doesn't run their life. They aren't political ideologues or partisans like many of us here.

And it's always far more fun to point out the faults of the other side than look in the mirror at ourselves. And for Democrats why did more Latino, Black and Asian people vote for Trump this time than in '20? Is it because they're all racist and sexist? I know some Dems are trying to claim that but is a facile try and make yourself feel good type of response.
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^ I wouldn't say that because it's a sweeping generalization. But... polling before and after the election shows that some of those groups went for trump because they liked his strong-man rhetoric. And many, many people don't understand how the economy works, and so blamed the Dems for such things as high grocery and gas prices.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The Left NEVER gets why they lost. Like religious fanatics they think their ideas cannot possibly be the reason they were rejected. What they never get is they are a distinct, but very vocal, minority and when their shit ideas piss enough people of, as they just did, they get booted from office.
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Speaking for the left, we never get why trump won instead of another, better candidate. Nikki Haley, for example. I couldn't vote for her because our politics are polar opposite, but she's not a convicted felon, either.
 
christiefan915 said:
^ I wouldn't say that because it's a sweeping generalization. But... polling before and after the election shows that some of those groups went for trump because they liked his strong-man rhetoric. And many, many people don't understand how the economy works, and so blamed the Dems for such things as high grocery and gas prices.
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I actually agree with you that many people don't understand how the economy works but for likely very different reasons than you would say.

As partisans we can twist ourselves into many pretzels. Some on here argue Biden is handing Trump a great economy and the economy was strong under his watch, so Biden is responsible for the good, but he's not responsible for the high inflation and what people don't like. That's a really hard sell to voters.

(Regarding gas I'm reminded of when Pelosi made that presentation in Congress about gas prices increasing under Bush. And anti-Bush folks on this board loved it. No one was saying "Pelosi doesn't understand the economy and that the President doesn't control gas".)

Presidents get credit and blame for what happens on their watch. That's universal and bi-partisan.
 
BartenderElite said:
Oh, please. The right does the same thing whenever they lose. I always hear about how stupid voters are when Dems win - or how Dems only win when they "cheat."
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The Right doesn't hold a religious level of faith in government like the Left does. Right-wing--true Right-wing--governments are rare. On the other hand, the Left once they take power move to consolidate their position with an authoritarian dictatorship proclaiming they are "protecting the people" with their onerous ideas. If that weren't true, countries with governments like Cuba, Venezuela, N. Korea, and China wouldn't exist.
 
christiefan915 said:
Speaking for the left, we never get why trump won instead of another, better candidate. Nikki Haley, for example. I couldn't vote for her because our politics are polar opposite, but she's not a convicted felon, either.
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That a Leftist prosecutor who campaigned on "Getting Trump," and then applied a NY law in a manner that it was never used before, before a sympathetic to his cause judge who aided in that by his rulings and jury instructions, managed to find Trump guilty 34 times using charge stacking, is meaningless. It's the shit that Turd World dictatorships use against their opposition.

Like it or not, people grasp that, and it was, in part, why Trump got elected. A good number of people voted for Trump to give a finger to the system and government.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
That a Leftist prosecutor who campaigned on "Getting Trump," and then applied a NY law in a manner that it was never used before, before a sympathetic to his cause judge who aided in that by his rulings and jury instructions, managed to find Trump guilty 34 times using charge stacking, is meaningless. It's the shit that Turd World dictatorships use against their opposition.

Like it or not, people grasp that, and it was, in part, why Trump got elected. A good number of people voted for Trump to give a finger to the system and government.
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With kangaroo courts the accused doesn't get appeals, stays, retrials etc. like trump's been getting. In a kangaroo court the decision is final.
 
christiefan915 said:
With kangaroo courts the accused doesn't get appeals, stays, retrials etc. like trump's been getting. In a kangaroo court the decision is final.
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Bragg didn't have the means to stop the appeals. If he did, and Letitia James did try to stop them in pushing for Trump to pay the entire judgement immediately, he would have.
 
Jarod said:
The candidates should not insult the voter, only the other side, at any chance possible for any reason you can come up with, offer no respect.

Play the part of the insecure school bully, who cant get laid without pretending he is the shit.
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So, openly planning to talk to them like the "dumbest possible terms" isn't insulting them. Gotcha. Any other great pointers?
 
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