Nihilism

An approach to philosophy that holds that human life is meaningless and that all religions, laws, moral codes, and political systems are thoroughly empty and false. The term is from the Latin nihil, meaning “nothing.”

This is a common misunderstanding of nihilism, the notion that nihilism states that life, morality etc are meaningless.

Nihilism states that there is no innate meaning, morality or truth in existence. It states that meaning, morality and truth are human creations, and such only found where humans invest it.

This isn't the negative philosophical idea it is portrayed. Once you accept the realism that there is no innate meaning or morality, and overcome that fact, you can move on to create your own meaning and ethics, morality and meaning that is built on more substantial grounds than fictional stories and ethics by dictat.
 
AnyOldIron said:
An approach to philosophy that holds that human life is meaningless and that all religions, laws, moral codes, and political systems are thoroughly empty and false. The term is from the Latin nihil, meaning “nothing.”

This is a common misunderstanding of nihilism, the notion that nihilism states that life, morality etc are meaningless.

Nihilism states that there is no innate meaning, morality or truth in existence. It states that meaning, morality and truth are human creations, and such only found where humans invest it.

This isn't the negative philosophical idea it is portrayed. Once you accept the realism that there is no innate meaning or morality, and overcome that fact, you can move on to create your own meaning and ethics, morality and meaning that is built on more substantial grounds than fictional stories and ethics by dictat.
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But life is included in the list of things which have no inherent meaning. is it not?
 
But life is included in the list of things which have no inherent meaning. is it not?

What makes you think that life does have innate meaning? What, in your opinion, then, is the meaning of life?

In reality, life has no meaning outside any meaning invested by humans. This is because meaning is a human creation. When an individual dies, the only effect that has is on the humans around that individual. If no-one derived meaning from the individual, they turn to dust, forgotten.

This might not be a pleasant thought, but existence is neither positive nor negative, it is amoral, it just is. Positive and negative are positions taken by the human doing the judging.
 
AnyOldIron said:
Just as a hammer can be used to build a house, it too can be used to crack a skull. The tool itself is not "evil" it is how you choose to act while using it that may be "evil".

It is not nihilism itself that is the tool, that is just reality, it is the knowledge of nihilism that is the tool we can use... to build our own meaning and moral structures.
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All philosophies are a tool. You have no evidence that there is no meaning to life, it is a reasoned assumption. Just as those who use other philosophies have no evidence of those. Saying your absolute, that nihilism is "reality", is the only possible way to look at it, and that you cannot be wrong is on equal footing with another who doesn't recognize the meaning of faith in religion and believes their own belief to be as infallible as the Deity they believe in.
 
In short, the attempt to say that there is not a scrum of faith associated to your beliefs that "nihilism is reality" is ignoring the very philosophy itself. You may be wrong, therefore in order to believe it so absolutely you must use that dreaded faith to support your belief.
 
AnyOldIron said:
But life is included in the list of things which have no inherent meaning. is it not?

What makes you think that life does have innate meaning? What, in your opinion, then, is the meaning of life?

In reality, life has no meaning outside any meaning invested by humans. This is because meaning is a human creation. When an individual dies, the only effect that has is on the humans around that individual. If no-one derived meaning from the individual, they turn to dust, forgotten.

This might not be a pleasant thought, but existence is neither positive nor negative, it is amoral, it just is. Positive and negative are positions taken by the human doing the judging.
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No shit. But this "life has no innate meaning" shit is what elitists use in the end to get people to agree to self-destructive policy. They guilt them over the significance they place on their own lives. Or call them stupid for wanting to survive and prosper.


For instance, " The Important thing is that the international economy grow and become more interdependant. If you care about your nation losing jobs, you must be a lowminded nationalist or racist".
Why is "survivalist" a pejorative term?
 
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Nihilism is hitting the reset button on values and beliefs so nihilists can implement their own agenda.
 
All philosophies are a tool. You have no evidence that there is no meaning to life, it is a reasoned assumption.

And there is also no evidence of any innate meaning...

All knowledge can be deemed reasoned assumption, due to the subjective nature of our awareness.
 
AnyOldIron said:
All philosophies are a tool. You have no evidence that there is no meaning to life, it is a reasoned assumption.

And there is also no evidence of any innate meaning...

All knowledge can be deemed reasoned assumption, due to the subjective nature of our awareness.
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but you're insisting that everyone else adopt your belief that there is no meaning. Some people have meaning in their lives, and unless it's harming you, you should stfu.
 
In short, the attempt to say that there is not a scrum of faith associated to your beliefs that "nihilism is reality" is ignoring the very philosophy itself. You may be wrong, therefore in order to believe it so absolutely you must use that dreaded faith to support your belief.

Damo, everything I say is under the implicit premise of the impossibility of absolute knowledge. When I make a bold statement I am not ignoring this, but don't think we should be cowed from making bold statements because of this.
 
AnyOldIron said:
In short, the attempt to say that there is not a scrum of faith associated to your beliefs that "nihilism is reality" is ignoring the very philosophy itself. You may be wrong, therefore in order to believe it so absolutely you must use that dreaded faith to support your belief.

Damo, everything I say is under the implicit premise of the impossibility of absolute knowledge. When I make a bold statement I am not ignoring this, but don't think we should be cowed from making bold statements because of this.
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Make bold statements.

But you've already agreed that people make up their own meaning. Most people choose to live and thrive. But when nihilists are confronted with this "obstinancy", they hit the reset button again and go back to yammering on about how stupid everyone else is.
 
but you're insisting that everyone else adopt your belief that there is no meaning. Some people have meaning in their lives, and unless it's harming you, you should stfu.

I'm not insisting anyone does anything??? Weirdo. I am arguing a point. What's with the ad hominem?

I have meaning in my life. But I know it is not innate, it is meaning that I have created from my existence.

If you aren't understanding what I am writing, or feel I am being vague, I am more than happy to explain in greater detail.
 
Make bold statements.

But you've already agreed that people make up their own meaning. Most people choose to live and thrive. But when nihilists are confronted with this "obstinancy", they hit the reset button again and go back to yammering on about how stupid everyone else is.

Again with the ad hominems... Ad hominems don't work as a rhetorical tactic against me, I argue dispassionately.

There is a clear difference between meaning being innate in existence, and meaning existing. I have explained this above...

I am yet to see a nihilist confronted with this obstinacy (obstinate in what way, that people enjoy meaning? I've explained this already, that meaning exists, but as a human creation.) hit reset and tell everyone how dumb they are. I'm not the one throwing ad hominems about..

I'll just argue the case with you. Hurling faeces about like a chimp isn't becoming.....
 
AnyOldIron said:
Make bold statements.

But you've already agreed that people make up their own meaning. Most people choose to live and thrive. But when nihilists are confronted with this "obstinancy", they hit the reset button again and go back to yammering on about how stupid everyone else is.

Again with the ad hominems... Ad hominems don't work as a rhetorical tactic against me, I argue dispassionately.

There is a clear difference between meaning being innate in existence, and meaning existing. I have explained this above...

I am yet to see a nihilist confronted with this obstinacy (obstinate in what way, that people enjoy meaning? I've explained this already, that meaning exists, but as a human creation.) hit reset and tell everyone how dumb they are. I'm not the one throwing ad hominems about..

I'll just argue the case with you. Hurling faeces about like a chimp isn't becoming.....
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Oh, poor little attacked nihilist. You never get a fair shake.
 
However, suggesting one is absolute knowledge takes faith. It takes equal faith to believe in the negative as it does to believe in the positive. If you don't recognize that then your supposed nihilism doesn't actually exist. One of the main points of nihilism is that you cannot be sure of anything. Suggesting that another is wrong because they take faith in something else is simply hypocritical.
 
AssHatZombie said:
No shit. But this "life has no innate meaning" shit is what elitists use in the end to get people to agree to self-destructive policy. They guilt them over the significance they place on their own lives. Or call them stupid for wanting to survive and prosper.


For instance, " The Important thing is that the international economy grow and become more interdependant. If you care about your nation losing jobs, you must be a lowminded nationalist or racist".
Why is "survivalist" a pejorative term?
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If opening up to an interdependent, functioning economy means you lose all your jobs, then the world would currently have no jobs. "Saving" jobs through protectionism always hurts the economy far more than any of the jobs would have produced in their lifetime. And who does this hurt? You and me. Just to protect some fatcats business interest, that he can't compete with foreigners.
 
Watermark said:
If opening up to an interdependent, functioning economy means you lose all your jobs, then the world would currently have no jobs.
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Your logic is wrong. Some will lose jobs some will gain jobs, depending upon how willing the leaders are to subjugate their people to global corporations.
"Saving" jobs through protectionism always hurts the economy far more than any of the jobs would have produced in their lifetime. And who does this hurt? You and me. Just to protect some fatcats business interest, that he can't compete with foreigners.
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It protects workers. I don't really care about fat cats.



It's not worth being dependant on nations who are not true allies, such as china. International trade is fine, but only with nations who share our same basic morality.
 
Oh, poor little attacked nihilist. You never get a fair shake.

Seriously, Asshat, ad hominems don't affect me in the slightest. Just thought I'd give you a chance to raise your game.

Hurling faeces about like a chimpanzee is a sign of a lost argument.
 
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However, suggesting one is absolute knowledge takes faith. It takes equal faith to believe in the negative as it does to believe in the positive. If you don't recognize that then your supposed nihilism doesn't actually exist. One of the main points of nihilism is that you cannot be sure of anything. Suggesting that another is wrong because they take faith in something else is simply hypocritical.

As I said Damo, although I make bold statements as to this is this or that is that I do so under the implicit premise that I recognise the impossibility of absolute knowledge.

We can't have absolute knowledge that the sun will rise tomorrow morning, yet I will make the bold statement that it will rise.

This implicit recognition of the impossibility of absolute knowledge is implicit in all I post.
 
AnyOldIron said:
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However, suggesting one is absolute knowledge takes faith. It takes equal faith to believe in the negative as it does to believe in the positive. If you don't recognize that then your supposed nihilism doesn't actually exist. One of the main points of nihilism is that you cannot be sure of anything. Suggesting that another is wrong because they take faith in something else is simply hypocritical.

As I said Damo, although I make bold statements as to this is this or that is that I do so under the implicit premise that I recognise the impossibility of absolute knowledge.

We can't have absolute knowledge that the sun will rise tomorrow morning, yet I will make the bold statement that it will rise.

This implicit recognition of the impossibility of absolute knowledge is implicit in all I post.
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SO then there's a change life COULD be innately "meaningful", and you just don't get it.
 
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