Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Trumpers never admit responsibility or error.
Yes, there's clearly a difference, but Trumpers will never admit it.
"No such law exists"
- Thread starter Guno צְבִי
- Start date
Trumpers never admit responsibility or error.
Yes, there's clearly a difference, but Trumpers will never admit it.
So, if I rob a bank and give the money back, I shouldn't be charged? Is that how it works? Somehow, I don't think that's how it works.
Do you think if Trump allowed them to "retrieve" them, you wouldn't still be screaming he should be charged? LOL!!
You people hate him so much, some of you find it extremely difficult to even type his name. You would prefer him hung.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
No, but if one person robs a bank and then turns themselves in while another person runs and has to be caught, the person who turned themselves in should be given a lighter sentence. Also consider the difference between a first time offender and a repeat offender. Should one be sentenced more harshly than the other?
Some might scream for Trump to still be charged, but the inequity would be telling. The bottom line is that Pence and Biden turned over all the material and Trump hid it.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
What a stupid analogy, but then we must consider its source. lol
Sorry, Cindy, but most normal people with ethics dislike thieves, liars, crooks, corruption, treason, cheating, and cruelty. You Reichwingers, on the other hand, only see those negatives when you can attach them to a (D).
Doesn't matter what we would have wanted; if the DOJ/National Archives had been able to retrieve all the materials that #TRE45ON illegally possessed, there would have been no indictment. Just like there were no charges against either former VP Pence or Pres. Biden.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
This is why the law considers intent as part of assessing the seriousness of a crime. Obviously neither Pence nor Biden were aware of the documents they had, nor was there any evidence that they meant to keep them. There is plenty of evidence that 1) Trump was fully aware of the classified material and that it was still classified, and 2) that he meant to keep it. Hence the indictment.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Another factor Trumpers will ignore because they refuse to accept responsibility for their actions.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
What we must all remember, Owl, is that while Arby has some personal beliefs that you and I are not wired to understand,
there is a mitigating factor to any and all of what you and I might consider deficiencies.
Arby owns a spectacularly impressive sports car.
The taste to do so indicates that he's not a devolved sub-human at all.
He's also an accomplished machinist, a valuable and increasingly rare skill.
He merely needed to be influenced by more benign people.
Just I am not not nearly enough, it would seem.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
and yet, we've been told for six years that there is plenty of evidence that will put Trump in prison.......you do understand we've seen you disappointed again and again and again, right?......is there really any reason for us to believe you this time?....
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
Yes, like killing the neighbors' pets and shooting groundhogs on land that doesn't belong to him? That's like saying "Yeah, Bob is a serial killer but he was nice to his dog."
He's far too old and set in his Trumpian ways to change now. Nice thought though.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
Not sure what you're babbling about now, PMP, but I can assure you that I'm delighted by your #MalignantMessiah's court losses, and indictments both current and to come. The very fact that he's trying desperately now to get his pet judge to postpone the documents trial "indefinitely" tells us that he's deeply worried. As well he should be.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Agreed he's worried. He committed so many crimes in office, it was only a matter of time before one caught up to him. Trump has clearly abused his office such as pardoning Flynn.
QP!
Verified User
Nope.
What Pence and Biden did with Documents was also illegal.
But as with Trump and how they gave him a break on all the returned doc's, the precedent, for those at that level, whether you like it or not, is if you return them once discovered, you will not be charged.
Trump was not charged with the possession of any of the documents he returned prior to the FBI search and seizure. He was absolutely free on all of those. Had he returned everything at that point instead of playing musical chairs to hide much of it, he would be like Pence and Biden and not charged.
Your hatred clouds any rational thought.
Do you really think he wouldn't be charged if he returned them without the FBI raiding his home?
Do you think they wouldn't raid his home if he returned them? They'd raid it looking for more.
QP!
Verified User
This is one case where i might actually believe Trump was dumb enough to believe the bad advice he got and was not just lying to do what he wanted.
Tom Fitton, who is not a lawyer but has a Conservative activist group that sues on behalf of right wing causes seems to have become genuinely butt hurt as a result of losing the lawsuit he brought to try and get Bill Clintons Memoire tapes that were stored in his 'Socks Drawer'.
Conservatives believed that recorded thoughts, Bill Clinton thought would never be heard by anyone could really compromise him and they went to court to get them claiming they were Presidential Records, since he recorded them while POTUS.
He lost in court with the court then establishing more clearly that "Memoires", "Diaries" and other such "Personal records" were exempt and a POTUS could keep them.
What Fitton seemed to take away was that Bill Clinton and the courts screwed him and he should have got those tapes. That all Clinton had to do was say "there are personal' and the Courts then let to get him keep them. They now think any POTUS (Trump) can say anything is 'personal', including classified doc's and just like Clinton, he will get to keep them. But that is not what the law says at all. The exemptions are clear. And no gov't doc, classified or not is ever personal and always must go back to the Archive care.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
How to tell when Arbie has run out of intellectual ammunition.
QP!
Verified User
It is even worse than that for Trump.
He DID hand back a lot of records and NARA nor the FBI nor prosecutors, were looking to charge him when they hoped and thought that was all of them and they were done. So just like with Pence and Biden, later, it was actually Trump who established 'give them back and no charges' precedent. So Trump already knew this, and yet as NARA realized it was not all and kept asking, and then eventually sent a subpoena, Trump KNEW he could just hand them back, like with the doc's he already had and he would be fine. Instead he lied and forced the raid.
Biden and Pence followed the first Trump template. Give them back and no charges. And the law was perfectly consistent with all 3 of them.
the only defining difference in the obstruction and lying under oath. That is unique to Trump and thus the charges.
Tinkerpeach
Member
Yes, it is open and shut. He took classified materials, showed them to unauthorized people, told them that they were classified, bragged openly about it, and refused to return them.
They weren't classified.
All of your arguments rely on that one single thing.
And the law is not on your side.
There is no law regarding how to declassify documents.
That is why you will lose in court.
You have to prove that Trump broke some declassification law but the problem is that there are none.
Tinkerpeach
Member
Then why wasn't Biden charged with taking documents?
There is nothing in that law stating that it's forgiven if you give them back is there?