Obama tax break

[Bonestorm]

LMAO.... you are truly a fucking moron. Ask ANY business owner about the uncertainty. It has EVERYTHING to do with whether businesses feel comfortable in hiring. If they are uncertain what their tax liability is going to be, they tend to hold off on hiring any needed employees until that uncertainty is resolved.

As for the rest you again show that you are a complete fucking hack. I doubt you even read what I stated. Because if you had, you would have noticed that the payroll tax deduction that I didn't like.... benefits the wealthy when they need not get that benefit. It also hurts the revenue of SS.

You would have also noticed had you bothered reading what I wrote that I thought they should have raised the upper tax brackets at the end of the two year period along with the Cap gains tax rate. Again something that does not benefit the rich, whom you hate so much.

But again, you are a complete fucking hack that doesn't bother actually READING what people write. Instead you just parrot your insane bullshit time and time again. Fucking moron.

Businesses aren't hiring because they have no fucking customers. It's really quite simple. They aren't holding off because tax rates wee scheduled to increase in 2010 but there was uncertainty whether that would actually happen.

I suppose all these businesses will start hiring tomorrow now that this crippling "uncertainty" has finally been resolved. Right? So I guess we'll see unemployment under 9% by next month with an orgy of hiring now?

 

[NOVA]

So they will eliminate this?
In 2009 and 2010, the Making Work Pay provision of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act will provide a refundable tax credit of up to $400 for working individuals and up to $800 for married taxpayers filing joint returns.

This tax credit will be calculated at a rate of 6.2 percent of earned income and will phase out for taxpayers with modified adjusted gross income in excess of $75,000, or $150,000 for married couples filing jointly.

Everything Obama and Democrats included in this compromise adds to the deficit....new spending with money that does not exist....

Everything the Republicans included is the 'status quo'...that is, a continuation of what is existing policy...

 

[leaningright]

Here is what I see from the discussion. SF (conservative side) says business aren't hiring because of uncertainty about thier tax burden in the coming years. Nigel (liberal side) says that businesses aren't hiring because they have no customers (ie. people have no money to spend).

Who is correct. I certainly am not smart enough to tell you. What I saw happen yesterday (not necessarily the legislation passed or agreed upon) is exactly what I wanted to see happen: Two sides who have obvious differences of opinion work toward a compromise to get something each wanted. The conservatives got the tax thing for a while longer (somewhat less taxation uncertainty) and the the more liberal got unemployment extended (people will have some money to spend). We are never going to get anything done if folks, democrat or republican, can't work together like this. I see it as a big win for Obama with independents that are paying attention in this country.

 

[Phantasmal]

we should sticky this.....in about 20 months libs are going to be bragging about how Obama's tax cutting policy worked and how he overcame Republican's resistance to cutting taxes.......

No we aren't, we know that tax cuts do not work! They haven't for the last ten years and they didn't help when Reagan did them. The future President's always had to come back and do the right thing and raise them! Bush 41 didn't get re-elected because of Reagan's tax cuts and economy! Clinton came in raised taxes, the cycle continues! They don't work and I am damn angry at Obama that he doesn't have any stones. I think I should have voted for Hillary! She would have stood up to these gilders!

 

[Bonestorm]

Everything Obama and Democrats included in this compromise adds to the deficit....new spending with money that does not exist....

Everything the Republicans included is the 'status quo'...that is, a continuation of what is existing policy...

Everything in the entire package adds to the deficit. Everything the Democrats wanted adds to the deficit and everything the Republicans wanted in exchange adds to the deficit. It's a big old deficit-financed compromise.

The status quo was tax rates increasing for everyone in 2010. The Republicans insisted on deficit-financed tax cuts for the rich and deficit-financed capital gains tax cuts. If the Republicans really gave a flying fuck about debt and deficits, they would have insisted not on additional tax cuts in exchange for the stuff that Obama wanted, but spending offsets. They didn't.

The idea that the Republicans give a shit about debt and deficits is pure fiction.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Businesses aren't hiring because they have no fucking customers. It's really quite simple. They aren't holding off because tax rates wee scheduled to increase in 2010 but there was uncertainty whether that would actually happen.

I suppose all these businesses will start hiring tomorrow now that this crippling "uncertainty" has finally been resolved. Right? So I guess we'll see unemployment under 9% by next month with an orgy of hiring now?

You truly are an idiot.... do you really think businesses wait until customers are in their door to hire someone?

No, they do not. Again you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of how a business operates. Businesses hire in ANTICIPATION of a growth in their business. They do not wait until the growth is there. If they did, they would miss out on potential business due to being understaffed/lacking production etc...

That anticipation is based on either a return of hesitant buyers (who by the way are ALSO holding back purchases due to uncertainty of the future) or by creating demand via a new product (ie... iphone, ipod etc...) or some combination of the two.

As usual, you try and paint an exaggeration of my position in a desperate attempt at building up a nice little strawman.

1) The deal is PROPOSED at this time. It has not passed either house.

2) No, unemployment is not likely to fall by 0.8% in one month.

 

[NOVA]

I just hope I don't have to hear another fucking word about debt and deficits any time soon (HA!) and that the policies work to help get the economy firing again.

I think we're not done talking about the debt and deficits...especially since Obama and Demsocrats are STILL finding ways to add to it....

Unemployment benefits going from 26 weeks, to 39 weeks, to 99 weeks, and now to 151 weeks....
and jeopardizing the solvency of Soc. Sec. by cutting contributions to a fund that is already suffering from underfunding by virtue of high unemployment...

Seems everything the pinheads do just digs the hole deeper and deeper...

 

[Phantasmal]

You truly are an idiot.... do you really think businesses wait until customers are in their door to hire someone?

No, they do not. Again you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of how a business operates. Businesses hire in ANTICIPATION of a growth in their business. They do not wait until the growth is there. If they did, they would miss out on potential business due to being understaffed/lacking production etc...

That anticipation is based on either a return of hesitant buyers (who by the way are ALSO holding back purchases due to uncertainty of the future) or by creating demand via a new product (ie... iphone, ipod etc...) or some combination of the two.

As usual, you try and paint an exaggeration of my position in a desperate attempt at building up a nice little strawman.

1) The deal is PROPOSED at this time. It has not passed either house.

2) No, unemployment is not likely to fall by 0.8% in one month.

Well, I think in a way they do, because if there aren't any customers or an increase in customers, there is no need to hire. If customers increase, then it is up to the business to expand, or keep it small and drive up consumer demand for their product, like one of my favorite eating places where I always have to stand in line and they don't take reservations, The Double Musky, the expanded once, but aren't doing it again, although they could double the size of the place and still have a line!

 

[Phantasmal]

I think we're not done talking about the debt and deficits...especially since Obama and Demsocrats are STILL finding ways to add to it....

Unemployment benefits going from 26 weeks, to 39 weeks, to 99 weeks, and now to 151 weeks....
and jeopardizing the solvency of Soc. Sec. by cutting contributions to a fund that is already suffering from underfunding by virtue of high unemployment...

Seems everything the pinheads do just digs the hole deeper and deeper...

Yeah, that $99 dollars A WEEK, that a dish washer in Alaska gets while he is trying to go the school to better himself is really going to hurt America!

And those people making over a million dollars really need that tax break they are getting!

One lives on his, what does the other do with theirs?

Merry Christmas Scrooge!

 

[Damocles]

I was refering to the 6.2% FICA matching. By keeping the employer costs the same, they missed an opportunity to spur some hiring.

When is an investment NOT a write off?

It's never 100% credit like it is with this. I definitely think that it is a good thing to do.

 

[Damocles]

Yeah, that $99 dollars A WEEK, that a dish washer in Alaska gets while he is trying to go the school to better himself is really going to hurt America!

And those people making over a million dollars really need that tax break they are getting!

One lives on his, what does the other do with theirs?

Merry Christmas Scrooge!

It is silly to ignore the fact that 80% of those particular taxes are paid by small business. Seriously, we directly punish the people who hire most of us if we tax them stupidly because we're jealous of their "riches". Exempt the businesses and you get almost nothing from the hike except emotional satisfaction that you are taking money from rich people.

 

[Bonestorm]

You truly are an idiot.... do you really think businesses wait until customers are in their door to hire someone?

No.

No, they do not. Again you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of how a business operates. Businesses hire in ANTICIPATION of a growth in their business. They do not wait until the growth is there. If they did, they would miss out on potential business due to being understaffed/lacking production etc...

Oh, sorry. I though that question was posed to me. Yes, businesses hire in anticipation of growth. There is little expectation of significant economic growth right now in a consumer based economy is at 10% unemployment that looks to be pegged there for the foreseeable future. Uncertainly about tax rates ain't got shit to do with it.

You are the guy that is suggesting that businesses are waiting to hire until this tax "uncertainty" is sorted out, not me.

That anticipation is based on either a return of hesitant buyers (who by the way are ALSO holding back purchases due to uncertainty of the future) or by creating demand via a new product (ie... iphone, ipod etc...) or some combination of the two.

So customers buying their shit? I wish I thought of that.

As usual, you try and paint an exaggeration of my position in a desperate attempt at building up a nice little strawman.

1) The deal is PROPOSED at this time. It has not passed either house.

2) No, unemployment is not likely to fall by 0.8% in one month.

I'm not building shit. This is what you said "The UNCERTAINTY is why businesses are sitting on so much cash and refusing to hire new employees." That suggests that you think that uncertainty about tax rates is the only thing preventing employers from hiring. If so, we should see a damn quick turn around once this package passes and becomes law.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

No we aren't, we know that tax cuts do not work! They haven't for the last ten years and they didn't help when Reagan did them. The future President's always had to come back and do the right thing and raise them! Bush 41 didn't get re-elected because of Reagan's tax cuts and economy! Clinton came in raised taxes, the cycle continues! They don't work and I am damn angry at Obama that he doesn't have any stones. I think I should have voted for Hillary! She would have stood up to these gilders!

The above is simply Democratic rhetoric. Tax cuts most certainly DO work. They are a far better stimulant to the economy in the short term than the fiasco put in place by Obama. That said, in the long run they do not work unless there are corresponding spending cuts or the elimination of loopholes and deductions (as we saw under Reagan).

Bush 41 didn't get re-elected because Ross Perot was in the race. Bush 41 didn't get re-elected because he RAISED taxes after promising not to.

Clinton came in and raised taxes in 93, the market then went into a decline in 94. When he LOWERED cap gains rates in 1997, the market took off.

That said, there is a limit to how low we can lower taxes and still see a benefit. Where that level is, is debatable. Our tax system is so complex it is nearly impossible to tell. Which is another reason it should be simplified.

 

[Phantasmal]

The above is simply Democratic rhetoric. Tax cuts most certainly DO work. They are a far better stimulant to the economy in the short term than the fiasco put in place by Obama. That said, in the long run they do not work unless there are corresponding spending cuts or the elimination of loopholes and deductions (as we saw under Reagan).

Bush 41 didn't get re-elected because Ross Perot was in the race. Bush 41 didn't get re-elected because he RAISED taxes after promising not to.

Clinton came in and raised taxes in 93, the market then went into a decline in 94. When he LOWERED cap gains rates in 1997, the market took off.

That said, there is a limit to how low we can lower taxes and still see a benefit. Where that level is, is debatable. Our tax system is so complex it is nearly impossible to tell. Which is another reason it should be simplified.

I am sorry, most economist I read don't agree with you. I don't know your degree, but i will have to go with the experts as this is not my forte!

 

[Damocles]

No.



Oh, sorry. I though that question was posed to me. Yes, businesses hire in anticipation of growth. There is little expectation of significant economic growth right now in a consumer based economy is at 10% unemployment that looks to be pegged there for the foreseeable future. Uncertainly about tax rates ain't got shit to do with it.

You are the guy that is suggesting that businesses are waiting to hire until this tax "uncertainty" is sorted out, not me.




So customers buying their shit? I wish I thought of that.




I'm not building shit. This is what you said "The UNCERTAINTY is why businesses are sitting on so much cash and refusing to hire new employees." That suggests that you think that uncertainty about tax rates is the only thing preventing employers from hiring. If so, we should see a damn quick turn around once this package passes and becomes law.

It might. Let's think it through using more than just the assumption that businesses will hire now that there's less uncertainty. If people were willing to come back to the work force for less, as they would be if there wasn't permanent free money available if they don't, businesses would hire them. Resetting a wage bubble is part of such a downturn, such a bubble would regrow when the employment market has less of a supply... (Yeah, economics works there too.)

Anyway, while helping people who lost their job is generally a good thing, it does sometimes hurt the rebuild a bit when the unemployed are less willing to return at a lower pay than they left at due to an infinite extension of unemployment insurance.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

I just hope I don't have to hear another fucking word about debt and deficits any time soon (HA!) and that the policies work to help get the economy firing again.

You'll certainly here it from me. And many others. Tax cuts are meaningless and indeed harmful with spending increases.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Obama tax cuts

1...Reduce worker payroll taxes for 1 year,(reduce SS tax by 2%)
2...give more favorable tax treatment to new business investments
3...temporary tax breaks for students and working families.


This President knows how to stimulate and grow the economy...

:lol:

This is why the Democrats should NEVER compromise with the Republicans! It's pissing into the wind, a useless and futile gesture that you'll only be spat on for making.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

LMAO.... you are truly a fucking moron. Ask ANY business owner about the uncertainty. It has EVERYTHING to do with whether businesses feel comfortable in hiring. If they are uncertain what their tax liability is going to be, they tend to hold off on hiring any needed employees until that uncertainty is resolved.

So "uncertainty" about a 3% tax hike on the portion of an individuals income greater than 250k has been causing corporations to refuse to do anything about hiring. Makes perfect since.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

No.

Yet that is what you stated. That there was no demand thus no hiring.

Oh, sorry. I though that question was posed to me. Yes, businesses hire in anticipation of growth. There is little expectation of significant economic growth right now in a consumer based economy is at 10% unemployment that looks to be pegged there for the foreseeable future. Uncertainly about tax rates ain't got shit to do with it.

You are the one trying to limit uncertainty to just the tax rates. The tax rates are a part of the uncertainty. Uncertainty is most certainly what causes businesses not to hire. It is what causes consumers to save money vs. spending due to uncertainty of the future. Thus eliminating the uncertainties is what will drive things forward. Even a novice economist could tell you that.

So customers buying their shit? I wish I thought of that.

No you moron. It is not customers buying their shit. Nice attempt at another straw man. There has to be a REASON that the anticipated growth will be there. Businesses tend to act (at least the good ones do) BEFORE the buyers start lining up.

If you made $100k (individual) and were paying under the current tax brackets, you are taxed 21709.25. If you were to revert back to pre-Bush tax cuts, you would be taxed 25680.50. A difference of 3971.25. If you are uncertain on what the tax rates are going to be for 2011. Then you have to plan for the worst. ie.. plan for that extra $4k to be out of your pocket. Businesses see this and plan accordingly.

If you find out that the tax cuts are extended for two more years... what do you think businesses are going to assume now for future growth?

Since you are a moron I will help you out. When businesses see that consumers are going to be taxed less than previously thought... they UP their expected growth rates. They look then to potentially hire new employees if productivity of current employees cannot meet expected demand.

I'm not building shit. This is what you said "The UNCERTAINTY is why businesses are sitting on so much cash and refusing to hire new employees." That suggests that you think that uncertainty about tax rates is the only thing preventing employers from hiring. If so, we should see a damn quick turn around once this package passes and becomes law.

yes, that is what I said.... and clearly YOU cannot comprehend it. Instead, you create your straw man by limiting the uncertainty to JUST the tax situation. I never stated it was the ONLY thing. That is your straw man. It is yet another in a long line of your absurd attempts to discount the effects of uncertainty on the market.

 

[NOVA]

Everything in the entire package adds to the deficit. Everything the Democrats wanted adds to the deficit and everything the Republicans wanted in exchange adds to the deficit. It's a big old deficit-financed compromise.

The status quo was tax rates increasing for everyone in 2010. The Republicans insisted on deficit-financed tax cuts for the rich and deficit-financed capital gains tax cuts. If the Republicans really gave a flying fuck about debt and deficits, they would have insisted not on additional tax cuts in exchange for the stuff that Obama wanted, but spending offsets. They didn't.

The idea that the Republicans give a shit about debt and deficits is pure fiction.

Thats pinhead logic in action...
there are NO CHANGES IN THE TAX CODE...the tax rates will REMAIN the same as they have been since 2003...THERE ARE NO TAX CUTS except what Obama has added to compromise...

CHANGING the tax rates is by definition NOT the status quo...

Try a dictionary....