On McCain

Timshel

New member
http://www.etherzone.com/1999/raim092999.html

COLLABORATION

McCain was shot down on October 26, 1967, over Truc Bach Lake, near Hanoi. As I pointed out in my last column about McCain, he claimed in a US News and World Report article [May 14, 1973] that he languished in a cell for several days, his injuries untreated. Confronted with a North Vietnamese officers who was "a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends we had to deal with," as McCain put it, he decided to cooperate. According to his own account, McCain said: "OK, I will give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." While there are some conflicting stories about how long he was actually in that cell, he gave his first interview on October 31, with French television reporter Francois Chalais for Beirut's L'Orient, who wrote:

INTERVIEW WITH A PRISONER OF WAR

"This John Sidney McCain is not an ordinary prisoner. His father is none other than Admiral Edmond John McCain, Commander-in-chief of US naval forces in Europe. In a weak voice, he relates his story to me: 'I was carrying out a bombing mission, my twenty-third raid over Hanoi. It was then that I was hit. I wanted to eject but while doing so I broke both arms and my right thigh. Unconscious, I fell in a lake. Some Vietnamese jumped in the water and pulled me out. Later I learned there must have been about 12 of them. They immediately took me to a hospital, in condition two inches away from death. A doctor operated on my thigh. Others at the same time dealt with my arms."

A "WAR HERO" FOR OUR TIMES

Well, which is it, Senator McCain – did you trade military information for medical treatment, or did they take you to a hospital immediately and operate? Either way, you don't look so good – at least, not like any war hero I ever heard of.

DID THEY SERVE COFFEE AT THE HANOI HILTON?

In the course of being interviewed by Monsieur Chalais, McCain is described as smoking a cigarette and sipping a cup of coffee – amenities most American prisoners of war did not enjoy. While he was obviously acting under great duress, in this interview McCain seems just a little too eager to please his captors and the Commie Frog sent to interrogate him. Chalais asks: "How are you treated here?" McCain answers: "Very well. Everybody is very nice to me." "How is the food?" McCain grins "feebly. Obviously, the least reaction hurts him. 'This isn't Paris. But it is alright.'"

REASONABLE DOUBT

The Hanoi correspondent of Cuba's official Prensa Latina news agency cited an article in the Vietnamese Communist Party newspaper, Nhan Dan [November 9, 1967], which cites McCain as saying: "There is not any doubt for me, things are taking place in a favorable way for North Vietnam. In particular world opinion. At present the United States is standing [virtually] alone." No one can blame McCain for succumbing to torture: but there is some reasonable question as to whether McCain wasn't given preferential treatment from the very beginning, from the moment the Vietnamese fished him out of the lake and discovered his identity. At the very least, the popular image of McCain as the icon of the veterans and the virtual embodiment of the military virtues is challenged by the record.
 
Well all I can say about this..............

http://www.etherzone.com/1999/raim092999.html

COLLABORATION

McCain was shot down on October 26, 1967, over Truc Bach Lake, near Hanoi. As I pointed out in my last column about McCain, he claimed in a US News and World Report article [May 14, 1973] that he languished in a cell for several days, his injuries untreated. Confronted with a North Vietnamese officers who was "a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends we had to deal with," as McCain put it, he decided to cooperate. According to his own account, McCain said: "OK, I will give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." While there are some conflicting stories about how long he was actually in that cell, he gave his first interview on October 31, with French television reporter Francois Chalais for Beirut's L'Orient, who wrote:

INTERVIEW WITH A PRISONER OF WAR

"This John Sidney McCain is not an ordinary prisoner. His father is none other than Admiral Edmond John McCain, Commander-in-chief of US naval forces in Europe. In a weak voice, he relates his story to me: 'I was carrying out a bombing mission, my twenty-third raid over Hanoi. It was then that I was hit. I wanted to eject but while doing so I broke both arms and my right thigh. Unconscious, I fell in a lake. Some Vietnamese jumped in the water and pulled me out. Later I learned there must have been about 12 of them. They immediately took me to a hospital, in condition two inches away from death. A doctor operated on my thigh. Others at the same time dealt with my arms."

A "WAR HERO" FOR OUR TIMES

Well, which is it, Senator McCain – did you trade military information for medical treatment, or did they take you to a hospital immediately and operate? Either way, you don't look so good – at least, not like any war hero I ever heard of.

DID THEY SERVE COFFEE AT THE HANOI HILTON?

In the course of being interviewed by Monsieur Chalais, McCain is described as smoking a cigarette and sipping a cup of coffee – amenities most American prisoners of war did not enjoy. While he was obviously acting under great duress, in this interview McCain seems just a little too eager to please his captors and the Commie Frog sent to interrogate him. Chalais asks: "How are you treated here?" McCain answers: "Very well. Everybody is very nice to me." "How is the food?" McCain grins "feebly. Obviously, the least reaction hurts him. 'This isn't Paris. But it is alright.'"

REASONABLE DOUBT

The Hanoi correspondent of Cuba's official Prensa Latina news agency cited an article in the Vietnamese Communist Party newspaper, Nhan Dan [November 9, 1967], which cites McCain as saying: "There is not any doubt for me, things are taking place in a favorable way for North Vietnam. In particular world opinion. At present the United States is standing [virtually] alone." No one can blame McCain for succumbing to torture: but there is some reasonable question as to whether McCain wasn't given preferential treatment from the very beginning, from the moment the Vietnamese fished him out of the lake and discovered his identity. At the very least, the popular image of McCain as the icon of the veterans and the virtual embodiment of the military virtues is challenged by the record.


is that I was never captured or suffered torture...maybe lucky or ran too fast...however I will not judge what he did to survive...Ionly relate to my own experience...had I been captured or tortured...I really honestly can't say what my breaking point would have been...and y'all?
 
Wasn't he given the opportunity to get out and go home, as a high-value prisoner, but refused?
Yes. Because his father was an Admiral they offered him early release, but he believed that he was no more important than anybody else in the prison and refused unless they allowed those prisoners to go as well.
 
is that I was never captured or suffered torture...maybe lucky or ran too fast...however I will not judge what he did to survive...Ionly relate to my own experience...had I been captured or tortured...I really honestly can't say what my breaking point would have been...and y'all?

Oh I can say...my breaking point would come when they locked me in a cell with you, at which point I would give up RS's grandmother to get the hell out.
 
Yes. Because his father was an Admiral they offered him early release, but he believed that he was no more important than anybody else in the prison and refused unless they allowed those prisoners to go as well.

Well then if that's not a myth, this appears to be a pretty low hit-job.
 
Yes. Because his father was an Admiral they offered him early release, but he believed that he was no more important than anybody else in the prison and refused unless they allowed those prisoners to go as well.

Yeah well I guess he's been a dumbass his entire life then.

All my comrades would have seen is smoke and my black ass high tailing it to the next ticket out of there.
 
Whatever bimbo.............

Oh I can say...my breaking point would come when they locked me in a cell with you, at which point I would give up RS's grandmother to get the hell out.



I could take anything your simple mind could throw out...no :321:problemo...but run away is your game...carryon!
 
LOL

Geez!

I'm just being honest.

Are you telling me you'd have stayed? What's sense is there in EVERYONE being tortured and locked up?

I love our troops so much I'd do anything to keep one out of a POW camp. Even if it was me that was asked to leave!
 
Must agree...........

I'm just being honest.

Are you telling me you'd have stayed? What's sense is there in EVERYONE being tortured and locked up?

I love our troops so much I'd do anything to keep one out of a POW camp. Even if it was me that was asked to leave!



you and darla are self centered bimbos...saturday night war protestors...right ya really support the troops..by your own admission y'all are frauds...end of story... for anyone on this board who has even the slightest sense of reality...by their own words the truth came out!:readit:
 
Once you acquiesced to their demand to tell the story their way the torture did cease. You were in bad conditions, but no longer tortured. They even would then allow you to talk to a reporter who would record their version of events from your mouth regardless of reality. If he had gone to the actual events he not only would not have had any access again to a reporter but it is likely he would have died under continued torture for the remainder of his imprisonment.

The Viet Cong did not fool around with this stuff.
 
I'm just being honest.

Are you telling me you'd have stayed? What's sense is there in EVERYONE being tortured and locked up?

I love our troops so much I'd do anything to keep one out of a POW camp. Even if it was me that was asked to leave!

Well I heard they have this code of honor; first man in first man out. So while I highly doubt I would be able to follow that ( I would do the same you would do I'm sure) I do admire someone who did.
 
you and darla are self centered bimbos...saturday night war protestors...right ya really support the troops..by your own admission y'all are frauds...end of story... for anyone on this board who has even the slightest sense of reality...by their own words the truth came out!:readit:

I never protest on Saturday evenings.
 
Well I heard they have this code of honor; first man in first man out. So while I highly doubt I would be able to follow that ( I would do the same you would do I'm sure) I do admire someone who did.
True. It would be very hard to do it.
 
This is pretty damn low... If he was such a coward he would have left when given the opportunity.
 
The man is truly a war hero, in the very real sense. It is a hack job. While I'd bet he wishes he could have taken the pain and lived or died with the consequences, he succumbed, as many did, and survived because of it. I for one am glad, it is good to have a person who truly understands some of the worst reality of war.
 
Exactly................

Once you acquiesced to their demand to tell the story their way the torture did cease. You were in bad conditions, but no longer tortured. They even would then allow you to talk to a reporter who would record their version of events from your mouth regardless of reality. If he had gone to the actual events he not only would not have had any access again to a reporter but it is likely he would have died under continued torture for the remainder of his imprisonment.

The Viet Cong did not fool around with this stuff.

and these same bimbos would do a vacation in the 'New Saigon' if given the chance...no way in hell will I ever visit VN as long as those in control are those who tortured our soldiers..:321: their cheap shrimp!
 
The man is truly a war hero, in the very real sense. It is a hack job. While I'd bet he wishes he could have taken the pain and lived or died with the consequences, he succumbed, as many did, and survived because of it. I for one am glad, it is good to have a person who truly understands some of the worst reality of war.

But he says he only gave them the names of football players and such. I mean, I don't consider that "talking". And if he "confessed" to being a war criminal (which by the way I believe bombers are, but not as big of ones as those who give the orders), under torture, then I think we can all give him a break on it!

I mean, even when BB and his friends beat "confessions" out of minorities, I don't consider it a real confession (and neither does the law).
 
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