APP - “One Nation Under God”

Socrtease said:
There are several very intelligent conservatives on this board. But they are the ones that don't think that organized prayers in classrooms are appropriate. They know that children can pray all they want in school but don't need a teacher or a school to tell them how. They are the ones that know that personal liberties are not up for a vote. We don't extend religious liberties just to the majority any more than we protect only speech we aren't offended by. This country is no more a christian nation than it is a Jewish nation. This is a secular nation that allows people to practice their faith however they see fit or to not practice any religion at all. You fundamentalist social conservatives think everytime a court says that organized prayer in school is unconsititutional that god has somehow been murdered by the courts. Kids pray everyday in school. Listen before any math test.
Click to expand...

yep
 
Socrtease said:
There are several very intelligent conservatives on this board. But they are the ones that don't think that organized prayers in classrooms are appropriate. They know that children can pray all they want in school but don't need a teacher or a school to tell them how. They are the ones that know that personal liberties are not up for a vote. We don't extend religious liberties just to the majority any more than we protect only speech we aren't offended by. This country is no more a christian nation than it is a Jewish nation. This is a secular nation that allows people to practice their faith however they see fit or to not practice any religion at all. You fundamentalist social conservatives think everytime a court says that organized prayer in school is unconsititutional that god has somehow been murdered by the courts. Kids pray everyday in school. Listen before any math test.
Click to expand...

When have I advocated school prayer?
 
Southern Man said:
When have I advocated school prayer?
Click to expand...
You and your ilk always point to that as one of the milestones of the dying throws of america. That being said, you are right, YOU never have. But someone that thinks it's ok his state has a religious test to hold office can't be far from that mark. Religion is a matter between god and believers. Keep in your home, your church your private lives. Not your job, nor the job of the government to save anyones soul.
 
Socrtease said:
You and your ilk always point to that as one of the milestones of the dying throws of america. That being said, you are right, YOU never have. But someone that thinks it's ok his state has a religious test to hold office can't be far from that mark. Religion is a matter between god and believers. Keep in your home, your church your private lives. Not your job, nor the job of the government to save anyones soul.
Click to expand...
States were meant to have sovereign powers. At the time of the Founding many had religion and government closely intertwined. Your state can pray to Satan for all I care. My state requires its elected officials to be Christian and you should have the same level of respect for our sovereignty that that I have for yours. :pke:
 
Southern Man said:
States were meant to have sovereign powers. At the time of the Founding many had religion and government closely intertwined. Your state can pray to Satan for all I care. My state requires its elected officials to be Christian and you should have the same level of respect for our sovereignty that that I have for yours. :pke:
Click to expand...
Your state discriminates on people based on their religious viewpoint. But that is not new for NC. They have a long history of discrimination against people. For reasons of race or whatever else. And just for your edification a state cannot violate the US Constitution. Soveriegn powers end where the base rights established by the US Constitution begin.
 
Socrtease said:
Your state discriminates on people based on their religious viewpoint. But that is not new for NC. They have a long history of discrimination against people. For reasons of race or whatever else. And just for your edification a state cannot violate the US Constitution. Soveriegn powers end where the base rights established by the US Constitution begin.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you can explain how a religious test is against the COTUS as it was envisioned by the Founders, many themselves who were officials of states that had such tests. :)
 
Southern Man said:
Perhaps you can explain how a religious test is against the COTUS as it was envisioned by the Founders, many themselves who were officials of states that had such tests. :)
Click to expand...
So you are saying that no where in the US Constitution does it forbid religious tests?
 
Southern Man said:
Perhaps you can explain how a religious test is against the COTUS as it was envisioned by the Founders, many themselves who were officials of states that had such tests. :)
Click to expand...
Actually I won't wait for your response. You are once again THE Constitutitard King. Article IV of the US Constitution says:

All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

So it would appear our founders were against Religious Tests. So much so that they WROTE IT DOWN! YOU FAIL AGAIN!
 
Southern Man said:
Not for states. :)
Click to expand...
That is NOT what you asked Constitutitard. You asked how "a religious test is against the COTUS as it was envisioned by the Founders, many themselves who were officials of states that had such tests". I answered that question with the actual writing. But I know, you states righters believe that a state could completely violate constitutional protections inside its own borders. Well you lost that argument decades ago, just like you lost the civil war. YOu all should be used to losing by now.
 
Socrtease said:
That is NOT what you asked Constitutitard. You asked how "a religious test is against the COTUS as it was envisioned by the Founders, many themselves who were officials of states that had such tests". I answered that question with the actual writing. But I know, you states righters believe that a state could completely violate constitutional protections inside its own borders. Well you lost that argument decades ago, just like you lost the civil war. YOu all should be used to losing by now.
Click to expand...
Wrong again, Libertard. My position has always been that States have sovereign powers. :)
 
Southern Man said:
Wrong again, Libertard. My position has always been that States have sovereign powers. :)
Click to expand...
Not this again....

:rolleyes:

In 1947, the SCOTUS ruled as follows:

(Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947))
The “establishment of religion” clause of the First Amendment means at
least this: neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church.
Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one
religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or
to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief
or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or
professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or nonattendance.
No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support
any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or
whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state
nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the
affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words
of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was
intended to erect “a wall of separation between church and State,” ...
[and] that wall must be kept high and impregnable.
Click to expand...

In 1961 they ruled thusly:

Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488 (1961)
In Torcaso, the Court struck down a provision of the Maryland constitution
requiring all office holders to declare a belief in the existence of God. The Court’s decision
was grounded neither in the Free Speech Clause nor in the U.S. Constitution’s Article VI
prohibition of religious test oaths in the assignment of public offices. Instead, the Court
found that Maryland’s “religious test for public office unconstitutionally invades the
appellant’s freedom of belief and religion and therefore cannot be enforced against him.”

The Court stated:
We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal
Government can constitutionally force a person to profess a belief or
disbelief in any religion. Neither can constitutionally pass laws or impose
requirements which aid all religions as against non-believers, and neither
can aid those religions based on a belief in the existence of God as against
those religions founded on different beliefs.
Click to expand...

Whether or not you like the 14th Amendment that made it so these rights became universal and binding on the States, it exists, it is part of the constitution and it is very real. It has made it so any religious test placed on any office by the states (local governments too, btw) are null.
 
Damocles said:
Not this again....

:rolleyes:

In 1947, the SCOTUS ruled as follows:

(Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947))


In 1961 they ruled thusly:

Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488 (1961)


Whether or not you like the 14th Amendment that made it so these rights became universal and binding on the States, it exists, it is part of the constitution and it is very real. It has made it so any religious test placed on any office by the states (local governments too, btw) are null.
Click to expand...

Again, I don't care about judicial precedence. What matters is original intent. When the Constitution was signed several States had religious tests and there was no federal action to stop that then.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top