Our Fine-Tuned Universe: Accident or Design?

PostmodernProphet said:
and generally those who get skin cancer are those who tan excessively..........we have lots of cancers and illnesses that result from excessive activities......
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God is a God. All powerful. HE, per Christians, was hands-on in sub-atomic details. Why didn't he, an all-knowing, omniscient being, design things so we get cancer FROM BEING OUTSIDE?

Is planting and harvesting crops "tanning"? Is tending to your sheep "tanning"? Is traveling a long distance "tanning"?
 
Cypress said:
Post #4 -->

"The origin and cause of the universal physical laws which lead to the organization of matter and energy is a metaphysical question."
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is the answer to the metaphysical question that universal physical laws had no origin or that somehow the universe came into existence without regard to universal physical laws?.......either way I guess the physical laws aren't actually universal.......
 
ZenMode said:
God is a God. All powerful. HE, per Christians, was hands-on in sub-atomic details. Why didn't he, an all-knowing, omniscient being, design things so we get cancer FROM BEING OUTSIDE?

Is planting and harvesting crops "tanning"? Is tending to your sheep "tanning"? Is traveling a long distance "tanning"?
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you don't get cancer just from being outside.........if it did, every farmer and every shepherd and every person who ever went outdoors would have skin cancer......it would appear you are blaming God for things he doesn't do.....

  • On average, a person’s risk for melanoma doubles if they have had more than five sunburns.15
  • One study found that regular daily use of an SPF 15 or higher sunscreen reduces the risk of developing melanoma by 50 percent, when used as directed.16
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PostmodernProphet said:
is the answer to the metaphysical question that universal physical laws had no origin or that somehow the universe came into existence without regard to universal physical laws?.......either way I guess the physical laws aren't actually universal.......
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I don't know what the answer to the metaphysical question is, but I have repeatedly written that it is perfectly rational to believe the precise rational mathmatical organization of the universe could be the result of a purposeful organizing principle underlying reality.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
you don't get cancer just from being outside.........if it did, every farmer and every shepherd would have skin cancer......it would appear you are blaming God for things he doesn't do.....
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He created the sun/stars and man such that the Sun can cause cancer. Why didn't he design things differently?
 
Cypress said:
I don't know what the answer to the metaphysical question is, but I have repeatedly written that it is perfectly rational to believe the precise rational mathmatical organization of the universe could be the result of a purposeful organizing principle underlying reality.
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thank goodness God created those.......
 
ZenMode said:
God is a God. All powerful. HE, per Christians, was hands-on in sub-atomic details. Why didn't he, an all-knowing, omniscient being, design things so we get cancer FROM BEING OUTSIDE?

Is planting and harvesting crops "tanning"? Is tending to your sheep "tanning"? Is traveling a long distance "tanning"?
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I don't think complaining that the Earth hasn't been made completely risk free from disease and accident is that great of an atheist argument.

The alternative argument could be made that Earth is also unique in having a magnetic field and atmosphere that protects us from deadly cosmic rays and the worst effects of UV radiation.

UV radiation has heath benefits as well as risks. If we had stayed in Africa, we would have retained dark skin and high levels of melanin protecting us from UV skin damage. Also evolution designed us to only live 30 or 40 years. Maintaining the technology and lifestyles allowing us to live 70 or 80 years is bound to induce a lot more cumulative environmental stress to our bodies.

I think there are much better arguments to be dubious of a god of Abraham than risks from UV radiation.
 
Cypress said:
I don't think complaining that the Earth hasn't been made completely risk free from disease and accident is that great of an atheist argument.

The alternative argument could be made that Earth is also unique in having a magnetic field and atmosphere that protects us from deadly cosmic rays and the worst effects of UV radiation.

UV radiation has heath benefits as well as risks. If we had stayed in Africa, we would have retained dark skin and high levels of melanin protecting us from UV skin damage. Also evolution designed us to only live 30 or 40 years. Maintaining the technology and lifestyles allowing us to live 70 or 80 years is bound to induce a lot more cumulative environmental stress to our bodies.

I think there are much better arguments to be dubious of a god of Abraham than risks from UV radiation.
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Who designed the universe with UV/cosmic rays? Who designed it with a magnetic field? Again, an all-powerful God has every option at his disposal. He was apparently able to keep every kind of suffering at bay, on earth, until Adam at the apple.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
he expected you not to be an idiot......do you blame him for people who got lung cancer from smoking as well?.....
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Are people working outside to survive "idiots"? Are people traveling long distances, before covered vehicles were invented, idiots? Is God unable to design our skin so that it's naturally protected from UV?
 
ZenMode said:
Who designed the universe with UV/cosmic rays? Who designed it with a magnetic field? Again, an all-powerful God has every option at his disposal. He was apparently able to keep every kind of suffering at bay, on earth, until Adam at the apple.
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For awhile in the Garden, he wasn’t even able to find Adam. Went looking for him.

So much for omniscience.
 
ZenMode said:
Who designed the universe with UV/cosmic rays? Who designed it with a magnetic field? Again, an all-powerful God has every option at his disposal. He was apparently able to keep every kind of suffering at bay, on earth, until Adam at the apple.
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Earth is uniquely protected from deadly cosmic rays in our solar system.

Your welcome to make whatever argument you want, but I don't find claims that the world should be ideal, perfect, free of skin cancer, and free of all suffering to be a persuasive atheist argument. I can think of perfectly good rational but also theologically sound reasons for suffering and adversity.
 
Cypress said:
Earth is uniquely protected from deadly cosmic rays in our solar system.

Your welcome to make whatever argument you want, but I don't find claims that the world should be ideal, perfect, free of skin cancer, and free of all suffering to be a persuasive atheist argument. I can think of perfectly good rational but also theologically sound reasons for suffering and adversity.
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If you believe the Bible, the kingdom of God, which is the earth, would have been completely free from disease, hunger and all kinds of suffering had Adam not eaten the apple. A God that can make that happen, can design living things to regrow limbs and design a universe at the subatomic level can find a better solution than a cancer causing sun. That's all I'm saying. According to the Bible, there was light in the universe before they were stars. Why not use whatever that source was in place of the cancer causing sun rays?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
you don't get cancer just from being outside.........if it did, every farmer and every shepherd and every person who ever went outdoors would have skin cancer......it would appear you are blaming God for things he doesn't do.....
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Again, our primary light source causes cancer. Does every person who is exposed to sunlight get skin cancer? Absolutely not, but our primary light source does, under certain conditions, cause skin cancer.

Are you telling me that your God, who could have designed man and the universe any way he desired, had no other options at his disposal?
 
ZenMode said:
If you believe the Bible, the kingdom of God, which is the earth, would have been completely free from disease, hunger and all kinds of suffering had Adam not eaten the apple. A God that can make that happen, can design living things to regrow limbs and design a universe at the subatomic level can find a better solution than a cancer causing sun. That's all I'm saying. According to the Bible, there was light in the universe before they were stars. Why not use whatever that source was in place of the cancer causing sun rays?
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We wouldn't be human if the world was perfect, ideal, free of disease, suffering, and adversity because there would be no room for self-sacrifice, empathy, charity, perseverance, compassion, mercy.

A human living in a state of ideal bliss, comfort, and unrelenting perfection isn't really a human. We would be just a shell of a human. Character, inner strength, and compassion come from learning how to live with adversity.

Complaining about skin cancer is a really weak argument to convince most people of the necessity of atheism. Are we supposed to be immortal?
 
I have no idea if this thing we humans call "the universe" was created or just always existed.

It is almost certain that no one else in this forum does either.

Some guess the universe either always existed...or its precursor always existed.

Some guess it is the result of a maker...a GOD.

Nothing wrong with making guesses about that, but one should recognize and acknowledge that the guesses are essentially just blind guesses...nothing better than tossing a coin and making the guess based on the result of the toss.
 
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