Our Fine-Tuned Universe: Accident or Design?

[Alter2Ego]

DUPLICATE THREAD. PLEASE REMOVE.

 

[Hume]

Can't you Christians be happy in your religion? Why pretend your beliefs are scientific?

 

[Litmus]

Can't you Christians be happy in your religion? Why pretend your beliefs are scientific?

morality is scientific.

morality is rational.

 

[ZenMode]

morality is scientific.

morality is rational.

Those are both true, but Christian morality is neither.

 

[Hume]

Those are both true, but Christian morality is neither.

Morality is just the conventions of a society for proper behavior.. What Aristotle called ethics, or character.

 

[ZenMode]

Morality is just the conventions of a society for proper behavior.. What Aristotle called ethics, or character.

Why is child abuse immoral?

 

[Hume]

Why is child abuse immoral?

You don't know? Think of something.

 

[ZenMode]

You don't know? Think of something.

I already know. I'm asking you why you think child abuse is immoral. Yes, I am assuming that you do.

 

[Hume]

I know. I'm asking you why you think child abuse is immoral. Yes, I am assuming that you do.

I never think about it. Something on your mind?

 

[ZenMode]

I never think about it. Something on your mind?

Do you think it's the pain, even short-term? Do you think it's the public embarrassment of having bruises? Something else?

 

[Hume]

Do you think it's the pain, even short-term? Do you think it's the public embarrassment of having bruises? Something else?

Okay.

 

[ZenMode]

Okay.

Well, if you are talking about any negative impact of child abuse, those are all things that are experienced at the level of consciousness in your brain, right? So impact of fear, terror, sadness, suicidal thoughts, negative self-image, etc are all things that occur at a conscious level in the brain. Whatever That impact is, with the right knowledge and technology we could document and measure that, couldn't we?

In other words, the neurological impact of child abuse is scientific and potentially measurable. It is also not relative to what society you live in. There are scientific truths that can be understood as relates to the impact of child abuse.

 

[Hume]

Well, if you are talking about any negative impact of child abuse, those are all things that are experienced at the level of consciousness in your brain, right? So impact of fear, terror, sadness, suicidal thoughts, negative self-image, etc are all things that occur at a conscious level in the brain. Whatever That impact is, with the right knowledge and technology we could document and measure that, couldn't we?

In other words, the neurological impact of child abuse is scientific and potentially measurable. It is also not relative to what society you live in. There are scientific truths that can be understood as relates to the impact of child abuse.

Harm is a value judgement. Nothing to do with science.

 

[ZenMode]

Harm is a value judgement. Nothing to do with science.

So you think things like pain and terror, as a parent is pounding their son in the face, is just relative to the society you live in?

 

[Hume]

So you think things like terror, as a parent is pounding their son in the face, is just relative?

How did you derive "relative" from "value judgment?"

 

[ZenMode]

How did you derive "relative" from "value judgment?"

In my mind, they are essentially identical in this discussion. However, for the sake of keeping things simple, we can say value judgment. So, are you saying that, for example, in a society that accepts child abuse, there is not terror, fear, pain being experienced on the part of the child being abused?

 

[Hume]

In my mind, they are essentially identical in this discussion. However, for the sake of keeping things simple, we can say value judgment. So, are you saying that, for example, in a society that accepts child abuse, there is not terror, fear, pain being experienced on the part of the child being abused?

I thought we were discussing behavior?

 

[ZenMode]

I thought we were discussing behavior?

We are discussing morality and whether or not morality is objective or subjective.

 

[Hume]

We are discussing morality and what is or isn't moral.

Moral behavior. Take an example: In Niger, some practice clitorectomies. I don't know how prevalent it is today, but it is done.
Some think that is abuse. But the people doing it--the families themselves--don't see it as abusive.

 

[ZenMode]

Moral behavior. Take an example: In Niger, some practice clitorectomies. I don't know how prevalent it is today, but it is done.
Some think that is abuse. But the people doing it--the families themselves--don't see it as abusive.

Right, there are many societies that have traditions or moral views that we would not find acceptable here. Does the fact that they have those views mean that, in this case, the girl having her clitoris cut out doesn't experience all of the negative impacts of having her clitoris cut out?