Plato's Republic vs. Aristotle's Politics

An important discussion of democracy going back to Aristotle. Many right wingers, and other ignoramuses, think Aristotle is criticizing democracy as rule by the poor. It is purely definitional, since no nation has ever even attempted this type of democracy.
 
"Common knowledge" is whatever Cypress opines. Sorry, not valid.

Maybe you should try reading the Republic sometime.

Plato's proto-feminism within it is arguably one of the most famous facts in all of philosophy.


The entire essence of the Republic is that it has a tripartite structure, mimicking the tripartite structure of the soul as Plato saw it -->

In the Republic, any educated, capable, virtuous person, including women, would have a right to public leadership.

Private property and nuclear families for the rulers and the guardians would be abolished, because they distracted from focus on the common interest.

A permanent rule of the philosopher-kings would be established, because that is the only way to merge wisdom with politics.
 
Maybe you should try reading the Republic sometime.

Plato's proto-feminism within it is arguably one of the most famous facts in all of philosophy.


The entire essence of the Republic is that it has a tripartite structure, mimicking the tripartite structure of the soul as Plato saw it -->

In the Republic, any educated, capable, virtuous person, including women, would have a right to public leadership.

Private property and nuclear families for the rulers and the guardians would be abolished, because they distracted from focus on the common interest.

A permanent rule of the philosopher-kings would be established, because that is the only way to merge wisdom with politics.

Not reading your posts if they are ad hominems.
 
Diesel=Stalker

I will never read your posts and will ban you from all my threads.

Stalker? You think way too much of yourself. You are a tantrum-throwing brat who can't put two sentences together. Your threats are so scary, you grown-up toddler. Also, Cypress's post was not an ad hominem. You just have a fit every time someone better than you puts you in your place.
 
I wish that I could remember the name of that Greek restaurant in Lowell that had the blue mirrors inside.

I think the owner's name was Aristotle.


That's the only place I've been that made lamb that I could eat,
but I haven't been there since the late 70s.

Everybody could be dead by now, plus I can't remember exactly where the place was.

I'm not sure that we discussed much philosophy there.
I remember talking about the Red Sox a lot.

That's like naming your kid Einstein.
 
Plato: Women who are capable and educated have as much right to be in positions of leadership as men in the republic.

Aristotle: Nature dictates that man is the rational being, woman is the irrational nurturing being. Nature intends men to be leaders, women to be ruled.



Plato: Abolition of private property and the nuclear family are neccessary for the rulers and elite in a rational and just society, so that their sole focus is on the common interest

Aristotle: Private property is a natural institution, and should be possessed in moderation. Efforts to abolish private property are futile and dangerous.



Plato: The Republic must be ruled permanently by philosopher kings, which unites political power with true wisdom (aristocracy).

Aristotle: Concentrating power in elites concentrates the potential for corruption. Rule by the middle class is preferable because it constitutes the golden mean between rich and poor, would follow moderation, and resist radical change (polity)





Footnotes:
Inspired by Plato's Republic; professor of political science Dennis Dalton; professor of philosophy Phillip Carey

From the land that originated democracy in the Western world, but still about 2300 years old. :D

Agreed with both on the difference between men and women. Consider primitive tribes, specifically Native Americans; there is the chief and there are war leaders. Men are naturally more aggressive than women, women are naturally better communicators. There's overlap and each sex can have top individuals in each area. Looking at averages, your conclusions about Plato and Aristotle could both be correct.
 
In what ways?

They felt the masses were to uneducated, too ruled by their passions, and too easily swayed by demagogues.


Plato thought a rational, educated, virtuous elite should rule the Republic. Aristotle put his bet on empowering the landed gentry, because as literate property owners they had skin in the game, and were more likely to resist radical change and rule with moderation.
 
They felt the masses were to uneducated, too ruled by their passions, and too easily swayed by demagogues.


Plato thought a rational, educated, virtuous elite should rule the Republic.

Aristotle put his bet on empowering the landed gentry, because as literate property owners they had skin in the game, and were more likely to resist radical change and rule with moderation.

Plato was over 2000 years too early to read Lord Acton's "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." LOL

The Founders agreed with Aristotle on only allowing landed men to vote.
 
Plato was over 2000 years too early to read Lord Acton's "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." LOL

The Founders agreed with Aristotle on only allowing landed men to vote.

Aristotle is often thought of as more pragmatic.


As for Plato's virtuous philosopher-kings, there have been only two I can name off the top of my head: Marcus Aurelius and the Dalai Lama. A third possibly might be that Ashoka guy of the Mariyuan Empire in India
 
Aristotle is often thought of as more pragmatic.


As for Plato's virtuous philosopher-kings, there have been only two I can name off the top of my head: Marcus Aurelius and the Dalai Lama. A third possibly might be that Ashoka guy of the Mariyuan Empire in India
I lean toward pragmatism myself. A difference between Aristotle and modern pragmatists is over 2000 years of scientific knowledge. :)

Philosophy is good....just like women. :D

It doesn't have to be either or. IMO, Yin-Yang is the best way to see such matters, a balance of pragmatism and lofty philosophies. A balance.

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Aristotle never said that. But prove me wrong. Where did Aristotle say that?
You might want to rethink your logic there. Proving a negative is near impossible.

https://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/politics/idea-property/
In Poetics, Aristotle attacks remarks on the community of property made by his mentor, Plato in The Republic, stating that the practice of generosity, an important virtue, requires individual ownership of property. Most of the theorists seeking to abolish private property do so with the intention of abolishing the greed and selfishness that accompany private property. Aristotle argues, however, that these vices result from human wickedness and not from the mere existence of private property. Consequently, abolishing private property is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for eliminate vice.

Aristotle argues that if people were equal and equally wealthy, they would become lazy in their luxury, and that if people were equal and equally poor, they would quickly become discontented. Aristotle also points out that Plato is not clear on exactly what kind of ownership the farming class should have over its property. The history of many communist countries during the 20th century gave a great deal to support Aristotle’s claim that the abolition of private property alone is not enough to make people happy or virtuous...
 
I lean toward pragmatism myself. A difference between Aristotle and modern pragmatists is over 2000 years of scientific knowledge. :)

Philosophy is good....just like women. :D

It doesn't have to be either or. IMO, Yin-Yang is the best way to see such matters, a balance of pragmatism and lofty philosophies. A balance.

The Greeks are so interesting because much so much of western civilization traces right back to Athens.
 
Aristotle never said that. But prove me wrong. Where did Aristotle say that?

Aristotle thought power should be vested in the literate property owning class.

I'm not going to play a thousand and one word games with you. Call it the landed gentry, the upper middle class, the mercantile class, take your pick
 
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