Plato's Republic vs. Aristotle's Politics

[Dutch Uncle]

The Greeks are so interesting because much so much of western civilization traces right back to Athens.

Agreed on the interest. It's the roots of Western civilization.

 

[BidenPresident]

Aristotle thought power should be vested in the literate property owning class.

I'm not going to play a thousand and one word games with you. Call it the landed gentry, the upper middle class, the mercantile class, take your pick

You are a scumbag lying piece of shit. You and your sok Doc Dutch can masturbate each other. I am done with you. Ignore.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Aristotle thought power should be vested in the literate property owning class.

I'm not going to play a thousand and one word games with you. Call it the landed gentry, the upper middle class, the mercantile class, take your pick

There's a lot to be said for people who have "skin in the game" to protect the long-term interests of their society.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You are a scumbag lying piece of shit. You and your sok Doc Dutch can masturbate each other. I am done with you. Ignore.

Rough day in the art business, dear?

 

[Cypress]

There's a lot to be said for people who have "skin in the game" to protect their long term interests.

Aristotle made sense in the context of ancient Greece.

The Athenian democracy was unique in that every male citizen was enfranchised. A lot of that has to do with the Athenian navy, but that's another story.

You can't really have a sustainable democracy without an educated and literate population. Which is why modern western democracy didn't really get traction until well into the 19th century. Mandatory school attendance and universal education are really just 19th century social phenomena.

 

[Cypress]

You are a scumbag lying piece of shit.

You and your sok Doc Dutch can masturbate each other. I am done with you. Ignore.

Unhinged rage like that is not something you see everyday

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Aristotle made sense in the context of ancient Greece.

The Athenian democracy was unique in that every male citizen was enfranchised. A lot of that has to do with the Athenian navy, but that's another story.

You can't really have a sustainable democracy without an educated and literate population. Which is why modern western democracy didn't really get traction until well into the 19th century. Mandatory school attendance and universal education are really just 19th century social phenomena.

A point some people on the forum obviously don't want to know, admit or discuss. Sad.

As 1/6 and the MAGA movement prove, the US is failing in their "educated and literate population" goals. The Republican move to strip money from public schools is part of the problem.

 

[Cypress]

A point some people on the forum obviously don't want to know, admit or discuss. Sad.

Knowledge is power. I think the United States was the first western nation to achieve near universal literacy and mandatory primary education. Which really tracks well with our evolution into a genuine democracy in the 19th century.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Knowledge is power. I think the United States was the first western nation to achieve near universal literacy and mandatory primary education. Which really tracks well with our evolution into a genuine democracy in the 19th century.

I'd have to look that up. I do know that Gutenberg's printing of the Bible provided a means for common people to learn how to read.

 

[Cypress]

I'd have to look that up. I do know that Gutenberg's printing of the Bible provided a means for common people to learn how to read.

You're right - because the 18th and 19th century United States was a Protestant nation, that was supposedly a factor in achieving near universal literacy; because Protestants are expected to read the Bible.

 

[BidenPresident]

So it is Cypress and Sok. Seriously mentally ill, dude. Gross.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You're right - because the 18th and 19th century United States was a Protestant nation, that was supposedly a factor in achieving near universal literacy; because Protestants are expected to read the Bible.

Literacy rates in history is an interesting topic since it could be considered a measurement of democracy, liberty and citizen's rights. There's a reason why Southern plantation owners banned teaching slaves to read.

This graph is interesting. Note how Britain flatlines after 1600. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_British_history_(1600–1699)

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/estimated-historical-literacy-rates

 

[Cypress]

Literacy rates in history is an interesting topic since it could be considered a measurement of democracy, liberty and citizen's rights. There's a reason why Southern plantation owners banned teaching slaves to read.

This graph is interesting. Note how Britain flatlines after 1600. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_British_history_(1600–1699)

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/estimated-historical-literacy-rates

Interesting. Don't know why Britain flatlined. Notice how the Protestant countries lead the Catholic countries in literacy. The Protestant relationship with the Bible explains some of that

 

[Cypress]

Aristotle: Concentrating power in elites concentrates the potential for corruption. Rule by the middle class is preferable because it constitutes the golden mean between rich and poor, would follow moderation, and resist radical change (polity)

Aristotle argues that ...the best constitution is one controlled by a numerous middle class which stands between the rich and the poor. For those who possess the goods of fortune in moderation find it “easiest to obey rule of reason” (Politics IV.11.1295b4–6). They are accordingly less apt than the rich or poor to act unjustly toward their fellow citizens. A constitution based on the middle class is the mean between the extremes of oligarchy (rule by the rich) and democracy (rule by the poor)


https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-politics/

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Interesting. Don't know why Britain flatlined.

Notice how the Protestant countries lead the Catholic countries in literacy. The Protestant relationship with the Bible explains some of that

Me neither which is why I looked up their timeline. It may have something to do with their class system; the middle-class and wealthy learned to read, the rest just picked potatoes and fished.

Good observation. Agreed on your conclusion. Definitely a thesis paper in studying the issue.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

That's like naming your kid Einstein.

Einstein is actually a popular dog's name, especially among basset hounds.

 

[Cypress]

Einstein is actually a popular dog's name, especially among basset hounds.

The only dog I know named Einstein was the one in the film Back to the Future.

Any parent who names their kid Einstein, Aristotle, Beethoven, or Galileo should be charged with child abuse : )

 

[Cypress]

Me neither which is why I looked up their timeline. It may have something to do with their class system; the middle-class and wealthy learned to read, the rest just picked potatoes and fished.

Good observation. Agreed on your conclusion. Definitely a thesis paper in studying the issue.

The English civil wars occurred in the 1600s, so that kind of chaos might have disrupted institutions and tradition of learning and education. Just a guess.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The English civil wars occurred in the 1600s, so that kind of chaos might have disrupted institutions and tradition of learning and education. Just a guess.

Wars would do it. Especially in the aftermath if one side oppressed the losers.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The only dog I know named Einstein was the one in the film Back to the Future.

Any parent who names their kid Einstein, Aristotle, Beethoven, or Galileo should be charged with child abuse : )

Einstein, yes. They would take a lot of abuse in elementary through high school. I doubt most students these days know the other names except for Beethoven, the dog.