Hail Satan!
Please ,please ,please dont let this be true
- Thread starter evince
- Start date
Hail Satan!
excuse?
bushco does not a reason, just an excuse that he manufactures in his own reality
anything that resembles an excuse becomes a reason - the old mountain out of molehill
bushco does not a reason, just an excuse that he manufactures in his own reality
anything that resembles an excuse becomes a reason - the old mountain out of molehill
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I normally agree with you on most things but we are light years apart on this one. The Lieberman Amendment, which should have set off alarms right there, puts this nation one step closer to war with Iran. The premise for the legislation is that Iran must be watched because they are against the occupation of Iraq, by a foreign government, ours, and the are supposedly arming the Shia in their quest to take over Iraq. The Shia are more than 60% of the population, shouldn't them being in control have been a forgone conclusion to all the politicians who authorized the invasion of Iraq?
It talks about the "publicly available evidence about Iran's proxy attacks against American soldiers in Iraq." Have you seen it? Most of the "evidence" produced so far has been discredited.
You mean the democrats who claim they were "fooled and lied to" about Iraq don't see the scapegoatism of trying to blame US failure in Iraq on Iran. We need to withdraw from Iraq so we can send troops to Iran?
Did you see who was quoted as a source of this "intelligence"? .. Zalmay Khalizad.
It claims that Iran is arming and assisting the shia in Iraq, and at the same time harboring Al Queda who are killing Shia in Iraq, and at the same time giving assistance and intelligence to the Sunni who are killing Shia and Al Queda in Iraq .. WHAT?
It claims that explosive devices (EFP's) could only be made in Iran, but Jane's Intelligence Review says otherwise. "Iraqi Shiites have manufactured both the components for "explosively formed penetrators" (EFPs) and the complete EFPs. The equipment required to make EFPs "can easily be found in Iraqi metalworking shops and garages", and that all EFPs exploded so far could have been manufactured in one or at most two simple workshops with one or two specialists in each - one in the Baghdad area and one in southern Iraq".
So did the New York Times, "An Iraqi unit, aided by American advisers, caught militants in the act of constructing devices known as explosively formed projectiles in a house in Hilla, south of Baghdad, on Saturday, according to the American military.” (Marc Santora, ‘Iraqi Militants Launch Attack on U.S. Outpost,’ New York Times, February 20, 2007)
So did Defense News, "Based on current usage, there are enough stocks of illegal explosives to continue the same level of attack for 274 years without re-supply.” (Milan Rai, ‘IED lies,’ February 12, 2007; http://www.j-n-
v.org/AW_briefings/IED_Lies.htm)[/b]
Does this make sense? "The US stance on the military capabilities of Iraqis today is the exact opposite of its position four years ago. Then, President Bush and Tony Blair claimed that Iraqis were technically advanced enough to produce long-range missiles and to be close to producing a nuclear device. Washington is now saying that Iraqis are too backward to produce an effective roadside bomb and must seek Iranian help.” (Cockburn, ‘Washington accuses Tehran, and sets stage for a new confrontation,’ The Independent, February 12, 2007)
How about General Peter Pace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, "While some of the material used in explosive devices had been made in Iran that does not translate that the Iranian government per se, for sure, is directly involved in doing this". (Morning Star, ‘US officer doubts Iran arms claim,’ February 14, 2007)
Then it ties in Hezbollah and it's purpose becomes obvious. They should have called this bill the Lieberman/Levin/Mossad Amendment, or the "Washington DC is Israeli Occupied Territory Amendment"
This is claims of WMD all over again.
And I'm the one who pointed out the Clinton Obama complicity. Are you suggesting that's not significant when they're appealing to antiwar voters, which is the majority of the country, with Clinton trying to unauthorize her initial authorization of mass-murder, and Obama claiming he wouldn't have been fooled by the Iraq authorization, yet too dumb/cowardly/bought to recognize that this is the exact same fraud.
I hate Bush just as much as the next guy but at what point are democrats supposed to answer for their cowardice?
Is this an authorization for war? Are you suggesting Bush couldn't take it as one, then say he has the entire US Senate behind him if he launches nukes into Tehran? Have you not been paying attention to what he said about the Revolutionary Guard? He might say he doesn't need authorization, but now he has it, or cxertainly what a deranged manic as Cheney is could take as an authorization.
Haven't we been down this road before?
Have you been paying attention to what Russia, China, and the Shanghai Cooperation Organization have been doing and saying? They are arming Iran to the teeth and preparing for a proxy war.
How big do you think the "coalition" will be against Iran? Is there a coalition left now?
My point about Americans being fixated with Craig is that Americans spend an inordinate about of time with bullshit and celebrity bashing. Politicians aren't the only ones responsible for the American government. The American people have an equal responsibility that we are failing miserably at.
There is nothing sane about this legislation nor is letting democrats off the hook for it.
"Is this an authorization for war? Are you suggesting Bush couldn't take it as one, then say he has the entire US Senate behind him if he launches nukes into Tehran? Have you not been paying attention to what he said about the Revolutionary Guard? He might say he doesn't need authorization, but now he has it, or cxertainly what a deranged manic as Cheney is could take as an authorization".
Agreed, it could be taken for one by these maniacs, because they are very deceitful. ib1 is writing based on a rational world, and he is correct, rationally. But I am more convinced that we no longer live in a rational country, and that certainly, it is not being run by rational people.
If the Democrats were to claim surprise that this was used to attack Iran, they would not be believable at all.
Agreed, it could be taken for one by these maniacs, because they are very deceitful. ib1 is writing based on a rational world, and he is correct, rationally. But I am more convinced that we no longer live in a rational country, and that certainly, it is not being run by rational people.
If the Democrats were to claim surprise that this was used to attack Iran, they would not be believable at all.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
ib1 is a smart guy and I like him .. and I'd agree with him 100% if this was the America we all grew up thinking it was. I'd agree if there were bounds, limitations, checks, and balances within our government, but the reality is that there are none. Bush can swear to one thing then turn around and issue a signing statement that declares the exact opposite.
The reality is that neither the democrats or republicans give a damn about what the American people think. The American people are against this war and elected democrats to stop it. Not only did they not stop it, we've sent MORE troops to Iraq, now they're about to attack Iran .. with democrats approving that. They don't give a damn about what Americans think they see.
It's time to wake up and recognize that this country has morphed into a full blown plutocracy and is no longer a democracy. We stopped being a democracy in 2000 and we did nothing about it. We are not in control of our government, corporations are. .. AND, you cannot defeat a plutocracy with the mechanisms of a democracy. They own American politicians, have complete control of MSM, ala, the Fourth Esate, and they own and are in full control of American elections.
Democrats don't care if they're not believed, we're not who they work for.
What are Americans going to do about it? .. Vote for republicans?
I don't know. I'm going to be in DC next week for the Answer march, and some CodePink events. I'm doing a lot of work on the "Cities for Peace with Iran" Codepink national initiative. Many times, I think I am wasting all of my time. But then, my other choice is, I can sit home and scream at my television until I cry. So I really don't know if it's possible to change anything, but I don't have an alternative to trying either. It can get very depressing.
DigitalDave
Sexy Beast!
BAC, what should they do about it? I've been voting third party since I was able to vote. I can't stand this two-party system and the amount of grip corporations and special interest groups have on our government.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Depressing yes, but you are doing the right things by continuing to fight.
Our children are why we can never give up no matter how depressing it becomes.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
As long as Americans remain locked in fear of supporting third-party candidates, nothing will change. As long as liberals continue to goosestep off to the polls to vote for a political party that doesn't respect them, nothing will change.
Liberals may be more intellectual, but too often, they don't demonstrate much courage
evince
Truthmatters
I dont think there is much hope of real change anymore.
A third party will not get elelcted.
The republicans running are borderline criminals.
Somehow they have the Democrats cowed.
Im feeling pretty hopeless right now.