Please take a moment today….

[Truth Detector]

I have to disagree, it was the people that fought the Vietnam War, that is where it started, coming back here having shit thrown at them spit on called all kinds of names.

That was from the leftists; your side of the aisle.

IMO most of them were drafted and many didn't want to go but they did and they did what they were asked to and as I said got treated like shit when they came back.

WRONG. Most were volunteers or lifers. The draft didn't start until late into the war with the escalations.

We need to show these people that they were hero's and deserved a LOT better then what they got.

Same goes for those who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet your leftist pal who started this thread is making it a political statement by pretending its all the Republicans fault.

 

[Truth Detector]

^^^ Wants us to forget that when Baghdad fell in April 2003, Republicans triumphantly spiked the football, and chanted that Democrats were "on the wrong side of history."

Apparently, you want to pretend that Democrats didn't support the war. Democrats are always on the wrong side of history and pretty much everything else.

Most of our most devastating wars occurred under Democratic administrations. Democrats held the House and the Senate for nearly five decades.

You only belatedly wanted to share equal credit for the Iraq War when the WMD never turned up, and we got bogged down in a lethal insurgency.

Wrong. I was denouncing idiots like you back in the day and used to post the list of Democratic leaders who said the same thing Bush was saying and voted FOR the Iraq Resolution.

Did you vote for Biden? He was an ardent supporter of going into Iraq.

 

[Tbird19482]

That was from the leftists; your side of the aisle.



WRONG. Most were volunteers or lifers. The draft didn't start until late into the war with the escalations.



Same goes for those who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet your leftist pal who started this thread is making it a political statement by pretending its all the Republicans fault.

Stop all your lying.
I lived it and was there and most of the guys I was with were drafted, not a lot were volunteers

 

[Truth Detector]

And Saddam himself said he had them, so guess who gets to pay the price for that? And yes, they suddenly never heard of Clinton's role.

Saddam Hussein's Development of Weapons of Mass Destruction

 

[Cypress]

I have to disagree, it was the people that fought the Vietnam War, that is where it started, coming back here having shit thrown at them spit on called all kinds of names.
IMO most of them were drafted and many didn't want to go but they did and they did what they were asked to and as I said got treated like shit when they came back.
We need to show these people that they were hero's and deserved a LOT better then what they got.

Aren't most Vietnam veterans dead by now?

I think America has taken steps to make amends for Vietnam veterans. In my experience, the Vietnam memorial is the most hallowed and scared piece of real estate on the national mall, and two generations of film, documentaries, and books have since painted Vietnam vets in a generally fair or sympathetic light

At this point in the 21st century, the Iraq War is a black hole people don't want to talk about, and I could understand how an Iraq War vet could feel their service was pointless and meaningless.

 

[Tbird19482]

A bad mistake beginning with the JFK administration, massively increased under the Johnson administration and finally ended by the Nixon administration.

Sadly, many leftists like you cheered for the Communists.

IKE was the first to put " advisors " in Nam not JFK .
Yes JFK did increase it a lot and got us deeper into it,
We should have never been there in the first place.

 

[Jarod]

Yes, now you showing your true brain damage again.

NATZEES!!! NATZEES!!!

lol what tards.

Run away now!

 

[Jarod]

I have to disagree, it was the people that fought the Vietnam War, that is where it started, coming back here having shit thrown at them spit on called all kinds of names.
IMO most of them were drafted and many didn't want to go but they did and they did what they were asked to and as I said got treated like shit when they came back.
We need to show these people that they were hero's and deserved a LOT better then what they got.

They were treated badly. Even though the war was horrible and unjust, they were heroes. The anger should’ve been taken out on the politicians, not the troops.

 

[Truth Detector]

I didn't know NIXON was a DEM.

It was the Democratic controlled House and Senate that refused to allow Nixon to honor the agreement they had made with the South Vietnamese government. Not to mention the WaterGate hoax that ended Nixon's Presidency shortly thereafter.

Try to be more informed before you rant like a predictable moron.

in June 1973, Congress ordered all U.S. military operations in Indochina to cease by the end of the summer, and in November it passed the War Powers Act.

Congress also cut U.S. aid to Saigon, from about $2.3 billion in 1973 to about $1 billion in 1974 and still less after that. Together with the 1973 oil crisis, which crippled what remained of the South Vietnamese economy, this made it difficult for Saigon to use the expensive high-tech war machine it had been given. So, even if Watergate never occurred, it would have been difficult for the Nixon administration to counter Northern attacks in any substantial way. That said, the developing Watergate scandals did eliminate whatever freedom of action the administration had left.

How the Vietnam War really ended.

With the Iraq war going badly and a hostile Congress looking for the exit, comparisons to Vietnam are all the rage. Accounts of that war's endgame have...

slate.com

 

[Truth Detector]

It was NIXON that sold them out, again I didn't know he was a DEM.

Wrong and stupid as usual. See my previous response to your glaring ignorance and revisionist bullshit.

 

[Truth Detector]

Stop all your lying.

More projection from a shrill, unhinged leftist lying dumbass.

I lived it and was there and most of the guys I was with were drafted, not a lot were volunteers

Living it doesn't mean you know what the fuck you are saying you lying dumbass. You wallow in ignorance and stupidity and merely were a small part of it.

 

[Tbird19482]

Aren't most Vietnam veterans dead by now?

I think America has taken steps to make amends for Vietnam veterans. In my experience, the Vietnam memorial is the most hallowed and scared piece of real estate on the national mall, and two generations of film, documentaries, and books have since painted Vietnam vets in a generally fair or sympathetic light

At this point in the 21st century, the Iraq War is a black hole people don't want to talk about, and I could understand how an Iraq War vet could feel their service was pointless and meaningless.

Well a lot of them are, but there are still a lot of us around.
And I agree things have changed over the years and the Vietnam Vets are getting some of the recognition they deserve as being war vets, and heroes.

 

[Truth Detector]

IKE was the first to put " advisors " in Nam not JFK .

France still owned the Vietnam mistake.

France appealed to the U.S. for military aid in Vietnam, and many of Eisenhower’s contemporaries were fully willing to intrude militarily in Vietnam on behalf of the French in 1954. However, Eisenhower thought better, accurately foreshadowing in an NSC meeting that, “This war in Indochina would absorb our troops by the divisions!” (Greenstein 52). Fourteen years later, Eisenhower’s sentiments would prove to be right, proving Eisenhower at least partially aware of the impact hasty U.S. action would have in Vietnam.

Eisenhower’s administration threw an immense amount of monetary and advisory support behind South Vietnam

Yes JFK did increase it a lot and got us deeper into it,
We should have never been there in the first place.

That is wonderful hindsight on your part. But at the time, with the Communist threat and Cold War around us, many thought it was having a Domino effect and needed to be stopped, that included JFK and Johnson.

Again, Nixon worked to extract us from the war. JFK and Johnson elevated it.

 

[Tbird19482]

More projection from a shrill, unhinged leftist lying dumbass.



Living it doesn't mean you know what the fuck you are saying you lying dumbass. You wallow in ignorance and stupidity and merely were a small part of it.

Well ASSHOLE I can tell you that well over 80% of the people I served with over there were DRAFTEES NOT Volunteers.
Almost every one of us.
YOU don't know shit about it from what you are saying.
And in the mid 60's most of the army volunteers were going to Germany NOT NAM.

 

[Tbird19482]

France still owned the Vietnam mistake.

France appealed to the U.S. for military aid in Vietnam, and many of Eisenhower’s contemporaries were fully willing to intrude militarily in Vietnam on behalf of the French in 1954. However, Eisenhower thought better, accurately foreshadowing in an NSC meeting that, “This war in Indochina would absorb our troops by the divisions!” (Greenstein 52). Fourteen years later, Eisenhower’s sentiments would prove to be right, proving Eisenhower at least partially aware of the impact hasty U.S. action would have in Vietnam.

Eisenhower’s administration threw an immense amount of monetary and advisory support behind South Vietnam



That is wonderful hindsight on your part. But at the time, with the Communist threat and Cold War around us, many thought it was having a Domino effect and needed to be stopped, that included JFK and Johnson.

Again, Nixon worked to extract us from the war. JFK and Johnson elevated it.

And it was IKE that got us into it and JFK did go in whole hog, so stop blaming JFK for getting us into it and put the blame where it belongs on LKE.

 

[Truth Detector]

Well ASSHOLE I can tell you that well over 80% of the people I served with over there were DRAFTEES NOT Volunteers.
Almost every one of us.

More anecdotal bullshit as usual. You seem very unhinged. How old are you? You rant like a juvenile.

YOU don't know shit about it from what you are saying.

Projecting again. You're the one who doesn't seem to know shit. I even posted links supporting what I am saying, you, not so much.

And in the mid 60's most of the army volunteers were going to Germany NOT NAM.

Another laughably stupid claim. You're talking to an Army brat who was born in Germany as a result and I assure you, MOST of the troops heading to Vietnam in the 60's were lifers and volunteers. My father included. He was G2 intelligence.

Draftee’s vs. Volunteers

• 25% (648,500) of total forces in country were draftees. (66% of U.S. armed forces members were drafted during WWII.
• Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam.
• Reservists killed: 5,977
• National Guard: 6,140 served: 101 died.
• Total draftees (1965 – 73): 1,728,344.
• Actually served in Vietnam: 38%
• Marine Corps Draft: 42,633.
• Last man drafted: June 30, 1973.

Statistics

Statistics about the Vietnam War The information on this page was sourced from various internet sites and research. If you find something that is not accurate, please submit the item with the correction and verification source through our site Contact Us page. Facts and Myths Casualty by Type...

vietnamveteranproject.org

 

[Tbird19482]

France still owned the Vietnam mistake.

France appealed to the U.S. for military aid in Vietnam, and many of Eisenhower’s contemporaries were fully willing to intrude militarily in Vietnam on behalf of the French in 1954. However, Eisenhower thought better, accurately foreshadowing in an NSC meeting that, “This war in Indochina would absorb our troops by the divisions!” (Greenstein 52). Fourteen years later, Eisenhower’s sentiments would prove to be right, proving Eisenhower at least partially aware of the impact hasty U.S. action would have in Vietnam.

Eisenhower’s administration threw an immense amount of monetary and advisory support behind South Vietnam



That is wonderful hindsight on your part. But at the time, with the Communist threat and Cold War around us, many thought it was having a Domino effect and needed to be stopped, that included JFK and Johnson.

Again, Nixon worked to extract us from the war. JFK and Johnson elevated it.

And it WAS Nixon that walked away from it not the Dems.
It was Nixon and his Paris accords where the sat there and talked while our troops had to stand down , could not resupply or nothing and the Cong were regrouping, resupplying .

 

[christiefan915]

Then Republicans need to share exactly equal blame with LBJ on the Vietnam War, because the vote on the Tonkin Gulf resolution was 98 to zero.

If the vote were strictly left up to Democrats, the war would have never happened. Majority of House Democrats voted against the Iraq resolution. Bush cooked up and exaggerated the threat.

Bush framed the need for voting on the Resolution to give him negotiating leverage. He specifically said on the eve of the vote he was going to try to avoid war.

That said, Democrats should have known Bush was lying. I did. Some of them were too chickshit to vote their conscience.

On political message boards at the time, Democrat posters were universally opposed to the Iraq War. I cannot remember a single lefty poster favoring the war. @Phantasmal and Christifan can corroborate this.

Remember "imminent threat" and " Iraq could launch biological or chemical attack within 45 minutes?"

This is a great article with a timeline showing all the lies that led us into that war.

Lie by Lie: A Timeline of How We Got Into Iraq

Mushroom clouds, duct tape, Judy Miller, Curveball. Recalling how Americans were sold a bogus case for invasion.

www.motherjones.com

 

[Teflon Don]

Then Republicans need to share exactly equal blame with LBJ on the Vietnam War, because the vote on the Tonkin Gulf resolution was 98 to zero.

If the vote were strictly left up to Democrats, the war would have never happened. Majority of House Democrats voted against the Iraq resolution. Bush cooked up and exaggerated the threat.

Bush framed the need for voting on the Resolution to give him negotiating leverage. He specifically said on the eve of the vote he was going to try to avoid war.

That said, Democrats should have known Bush was lying. I did. Some of them were too chickshit to vote their conscience.

On political message boards at the time, Democrat posters were universally opposed to the Iraq War. I cannot remember a single lefty poster favoring the war. @Phantasmal and Christifan can corroborate this.

So just to confirm

Vietnam War under democrat President; both sides get blame?

Iraq War under republican President; only republicans get blame?

That is some crazy cognitive dissonance you have going on there bub

 

[Truth Detector]

And it was IKE that got us into it

Again, that is factually incorrect no matter how many times you bloviate that moronic lie.

and JFK did go in whole hog, so stop blaming JFK for getting us into it and put the blame where it belongs on LKE.

Wrong also, JFK didn't go into the war whole hog. Mostly they were Special Forces advisors. At the most, before his assassination, he had 12,000 advisors and helicopter pilots who were ordered to avoid combat. It was Johnson who super elevated and began involving regular Army troops.

Myth: Most Vietnam veterans were drafted.

2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers. 2/3 of the men who served in World War II were drafted. [Westmoreland] Approximately 70% of those killed were volunteers.[McCaffrey] Many men volunteered for the draft so even some of the draftees were actually volunteers.

Myth: A disproportionate number of blacks were killed in the Vietnam War.

86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were black, 1.2% were other races. (CACF and Westmoreland)

Sociologists Charles C. Moskos and John Sibley Butler, in their recently published book “All That We Can Be,” said they analyzed the claim that blacks were used like cannon fodder during Vietnam “and can report definitely that this charge is untrue. Black fatalities amounted to 12 percent of all Americans killed in Southeast Asia – a figure proportional to the number of blacks in the U.S. population at the time and slightly lower than the proportion of blacks in the Army at the close of the war.” [All That We Can Be]

Myth: The war was fought largely by the poor and uneducated.

Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas had a slightly elevated risk of dying because they were more likely to be pilots or infantry officers.

Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces our nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better. [McCaffrey]