Powell strikes back!

Southern Man said:
Actually, you are the Artful Dodger here. Here's my question, followed by your previous "answer":



Under the modern definition of conservatism, they were. Yet you can't admit that.
Click to expand...

Sorry genius, but the recorded post is your own undoing and proves you to be either a BS artist and/or liar. Whenever you neocon numbskulls can't defend your position or prove your assertions, you try to divert the discussion to some yes/no question that is only remotely related to the core discussion. Here's how and why I answered you as I did, copied from the original exchange, unedited. Please note that you made a statement, to which I responded accordingly. Changing that statement into a question won't change the FACT that I already addressed the statement, and you don't like/cannot refute the response:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Man
I can't say I blame you both for sticking together, sort of like two rats drowning in a lake.

Taichiliberal: My, my....I've frustrated you so badly by exposing your ignorance that your sheet is showing. Better tuck it back in, bunky.

Southern Man: Modern conservatism is exactly like 18th century American liberalism. I'm not surprised that you didn't realize that.


Taichiliberal: Hey mastermind....do you think that such concepts as right to trial, free speech, equality regardless of financial or social status under the law, were "conservative" values when the country was created by the Founding Fathers? The Crown of England didn't think so. God, sometimes I truly believe that you are that fucking stupid, rather than just another insipidly stubborn neocon stooge.

Since you obviously didn't fully grasp the concept of my response....check out Motleydude's response to your moot question. That pretty much sums it up for those who are slow on the uptake and need futher elaboration. Just Plain Politics! - View Single Post - Powell strikes back! But I suspect you'll just maintain your BS....after all, repetition and insipid stubborness is about all you've got. Carry on.
 
Last edited:
Southern Man said:
Modern conservatism means that we have a respect for the Constitution, limited government, and personal responsibility- just like the Founders.
Click to expand...

Modern Conservatism is an oxymoron used by people who have no idea what freedom means and use the constitution to wipe their ass with.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Sorry genius, but the recorded post is your own undoing and proves you to be either a BS artist and/or liar. Whenever you neocon numbskulls can't defend your position or prove your assertions, you try to divert the discussion to some yes/no question that is only remotely related to the core discussion. Here's how and why I answered you as I did, copied from the original exchange, unedited. Please note that you made a statement, to which I responded accordingly. Changing that statement into a question won't change the FACT that I already addressed the statement, and you don't like/cannot refute the response:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Man
I can't say I blame you both for sticking together, sort of like two rats drowning in a lake.

Taichiliberal: My, my....I've frustrated you so badly by exposing your ignorance that your sheet is showing. Better tuck it back in, bunky.

Southern Man: Modern conservatism is exactly like 18th century American liberalism. I'm not surprised that you didn't realize that.


Taichiliberal: Hey mastermind....do you think that such concepts as right to trial, free speech, equality regardless of financial or social status under the law, were "conservative" values when the country was created by the Founding Fathers? The Crown of England didn't think so. God, sometimes I truly believe that you are that fucking stupid, rather than just another insipidly stubborn neocon stooge.

Since you obviously didn't fully grasp the concept of my response....check out Motleydude's response to your moot question. That pretty much sums it up for those who are slow on the uptake and need futher elaboration. Just Plain Politics! - View Single Post - Powell strikes back! But I suspect you'll just maintain your BS....after all, repetition and insipid stubborness is about all you've got. Carry on.
Click to expand...

Mottleydude said:
Modern Conservatism is an oxymoron used by people who have no idea what freedom means and use the constitution to wipe their ass with.
Click to expand...

This cannot be disputed: modern conservatism means that we have a respect for the Constitution, limited government, and personal responsibility- just like the Founders.
 
He, as a soldier, is wired for life. He was a yes man to the Bush administration, yuke.
 
Southern Man said:
This cannot be disputed: modern conservatism means that we have a respect for the Constitution, limited government, and personal responsibility- just like the Founders.
Click to expand...

YOU were wrong.....PAY ATTENTION AND STOP QUOTING ONLY WHAT YOU THINK YOU CAN TURN IN YOUR FAVOR:

Originally Posted by Mottleydude
However reality contradicts your assertion. Modern conservative claims of "reasonable regulations" ends up being an excuse to completely undermine and gut regulations that we depend on to protect the public interest from human health and safety right on down to commerce and consumer rights. Give conservatives an inch and they will manipulate that to undermine the whole shebang. Give a conservative a cost benefit analysis and they will use it to undermine and destroy critical regulations and do so purely against the public interest and solely for the interest of a few powerful and/or wealthy individuals. So such a claim by conservatives is laughable hypocracy based upon their actions.


And what do we get from these claims? We get more conservative hypocracy. Severe limitations in government base upon conservative actions means increased autocracy, an erosion of our civil rights, forced intellectual conformity and corrupt, inept and incompetent governance. The call for minimal taxation really means class warfare by decreasing taxation on the wealth and shifting that burdon of taxation by increasing taxation on the middle and professional classes. Not only that but no greater threat exist to our constitutional freedoms then the conservative movement. Conservatives talk a good game but give them power and the constitution became a piece of paper they wipe there ass on.



That's because the conservative movement is so brain dead about what freedom and liberty actually are that they have become just words to them. Watch some one actually practice freedom and liberty oh dear lord the first persons you hear screaming and howling for blood are conservatives. Who maintained slavery in our nation for 100 years? Conservatives! Who enforced Jim Crow, segregation and racial discrimination for another 100 years? Conservatives! Who howls the first, the loudest and longest and most hatefully when American gay's try to practice their God given rights by practicing their freedom and liberty to marry each other? Conservatives! More conservative hypocracy as conservatives have no idea what freedom or liberty means. It's something that only applies to them. Not anyone else.

That's just ideological non-sense. Jefferson and Hamilton lived in a sparsely populated agricultral state. They didn't have to worry about feeding, housing and educating 300 million people. Conservatives (actually your reactionaries) want to take this country back in time to an imaginary time that never existed and would not have worked even when we were an agrarian society, let alone a modern industrial one. You try to make an ideological argument based upon our founding fathers but the only thing you prove with such reactionary ideology is to demonstrate conservative ineptitude for governance and why you do not and have not earned the public trust to govern this nation.



What extreme degrees? If liberals are so fucking extreme how comes it was conservatives who just damned near crashed our economy? How comes all our greatest periods of economic growth and expansion have all come under liberal or moderate administrations? How comes all our greatest economic disasters have all occurred under conservative administration? More ideological non-sense that doesn't hold any water in face of the facts and is just more evidence of why conservatives do not have the publics trust when it comes to governance.

That's a complete and total strawman pulled out of Rush Limbaugh's ass. Liberals invented constitutional democracy and conservatives just can't get it through their thick heads that limited government means limiting the power of government. Not undermining it till that it's so completely incompetent that they cant' be trusted to zip their own pants with out cutting off their own pricks! No, this is just more evidence of why conservatives do not and have not earned the the publics trust and why liberals and moderates do earn the public trust.



What an utter bull shit strawman. The only one I've seen placing limits on peoples rights are authoritarian conservatives who make a complete mockery of the constitution by torturing people and throwing them in prison with out charging them. No one uses the US Constitution like a worhless piece of toilet paper like conservatives do. The only rights conservatives care about are their own and FUCK EVEYONE ELSE! They have done it time and time again as I've listed above.


Like hell they weren't extreme leftist. They were radical revolutionaries. It dont' get no farther to the left then that. You keep throwing one strawman after another after another. I'm no socialist and I sure as hell believe in capitalism but don't piss up wind and tell me it's raining. Conservative economics stand for an aristocracy/oligarchy of the monied few against the rest of the peoples of this nation. There is no limit to their greed, corruption and hypocracy. The facts just don't bear up to your ideological claims because by every material measure we, as a nation, have always prospered more under liberal governance while most of our economic catastrophes have conservatives at the root cause.

You claims just simply don't match up with the facts.
 
Taichiliberal said:
....
Like hell they weren't extreme leftist. They were radical revolutionaries. It dont' get no farther to the left then that...
Click to expand...

Wow nice rant, but the issue that I am discussing with you boils down to this portion of your post. You are correct that the Founders were considered liberal radicals. What you neglect is the historical context, and that a 1776 liberal doesn't relate at all to liberalism in 2009. The Declaration of Independence basically turned the English model of monarchy on its head, and 11 years later of course the Constitution. so my statement: "modern conservatism means that we have a respect for the Constitution, limited government, and personal responsibility- just like the Founders." is entirely correct. Modern Liberalism seeks to tear down the Constitution, create a government that controls nearly all aspects of our lives, and rejects personal responsibility.
 
Southern Man said:
Wow nice rant, but the issue that I am discussing with you boils down to this portion of your post. You are correct that the Founders were considered liberal radicals. What you neglect is the historical context, and that a 1776 liberal doesn't relate at all to liberalism in 2009. The Declaration of Independence basically turned the English model of monarchy on its head, and 11 years later of course the Constitution. so my statement: "modern conservatism means that we have a respect for the Constitution, limited government, and personal responsibility- just like the Founders." is entirely correct. Modern Liberalism seeks to tear down the Constitution, create a government that controls nearly all aspects of our lives, and rejects personal responsibility.
Click to expand...

You did okay until the last sentence. To date, you or any other neocon can logically and factually PROVE that statement. Riddle me this Batman....why is it that all the shredding to the Constitution and Bill of Rights done under the leadership and promotion of the Shrub & company in the last 8 years NOT under the same label as you place "modern liberalism"?
 
Last edited:
Taichiliberal said:
You did okay until the last sentence. To date, you or any other neocon can logically and factually PROVE that statement. Riddle me this Batman....why is it that all the shredding to the Constitution and Bill of Rights done under the leadership and promotion of the Shrub & company in the last 8 years NOT under the same label as you place "modern liberalism"?
Click to expand...

1. Nice to see that after nearly a week of you dancing around my simple statement culminating in a massive rant you finally realize that my position is rock solid and cannot be disputed. You are admitting that, aren't you?
2. You are attempting to deflect but I will address this anyway: I have never claimed that W was a Conservative; Obama is continuing most of the W policies that you admonish.
3. Modern Liberalism seeks to tear down the Constitution, create a government that controls nearly all aspects of our lives: "Fairness Doctrine", State run media; Gun registration, restrictions and out-right bans;
Total usurpation of the People and State's rights by creation of a federal government that completely ignores its limited mandate of enumerated powers.
4. Modern Liberalism rejects personal responsibility: abortion on demand, government bail-outs, universal heath care, support of unions, rejection of school choice.
 
Taichiliberal said:
You did okay until the last sentence. To date, you or any other neocon can logically and factually PROVE that statement. Riddle me this Batman....why is it that all the shredding to the Constitution and Bill of Rights done under the leadership and promotion of the Shrub & company in the last 8 years NOT under the same label as you place "modern liberalism"?
Click to expand...
It is.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
You did okay until the last sentence. To date, you or any other neocon can logically and factually PROVE that statement. Riddle me this Batman....why is it that all the shredding to the Constitution and Bill of Rights done under the leadership and promotion of the Shrub & company in the last 8 years NOT under the same label as you place "modern liberalism"?

Southern Man said:
1. Nice to see that after nearly a week of you dancing around my simple statement culminating in a massive rant you finally realize that my position is rock solid and cannot be disputed. You are admitting that, aren't you? A pity to see that you're still stubbornly holding onto a statement that is NOT true. So far, you've changed it from a statement to a question and now a VERSION of the original statement. In short, you're full of it...and the recorded posts prove me out. What's pathetic is that you'll deny everything until someone cuts & pastes your own words, then you cop to "oh, well what I meant to say was....." Spare us all, will ya?
2. You are attempting to deflect but I will address this anyway: I have never claimed that W was a Conservative; Obama is continuing most of the W policies that you admonish. And since when during any of our exchanges have you in no-uncertain-terms criticize any of the Shrub's policies and actions from the last 8 years? Since you use "liberals" as some sort of insult like any other neocon wonk, your sudden claim of a central position is dubious at best. Now then, can you answer an honest question? why is it that all the shredding to the Constitution and Bill of Rights done under the leadership and promotion of the Shrub & company in the last 8 years NOT under the same label as you place "modern liberalism"?

3. Modern Liberalism seeks to tear down the Constitution, create a government that controls nearly all aspects of our lives: Again, Prove it! Let's see how you do. "Fairness Doctrine", which required broadcast stations to devote AT LEAST ONE PORTION of their broadcast schedule to reflect an alternative political/social view point, in order to avoid a monopoly type situation. As TV came into view, station owners whined that it was "too difficult" to arrange their schedules to do such, and lobbied to remove the Doctrine and got Ronnie Raygun to do it. Now you have Fox News, Clear Channel, Air America...and other politically/socially lopsided stations/networks. Gee, whatever happened to anti-trust laws? State run media; You mean collusion with the state media? Like GE (military contracts) owning broadcast stations? Gun registration, restrictions and out-right bans; Puh-leeze, spare us all this constant regurgitation of NRA propaganda that preys on paranoid souls like you. Bottom line: If you are a law abiding citizen, you can buy a gun for home protection, you want to carry, you can fill out a form, pay a fee, take the course.....and to date the only "ban" you gun dupes are whining about is that you can't get your hands on every possible weapon known to man. As it stands, you get a plethora hand guns, hunting rifles, semi-automatic weapons. If you feel you can't defend yourself with that, then join the police force or the military. (Washington, DC was the only true "ban", that lasted 30 years before being voted down). Total usurpation of the People and State's rights by creation of a federal government that completely ignores its limited mandate of enumerated powers. Yeah, you don't like the Federal gov't....no surprise. Funny how folk like you had no problem (and were happy as clams in beer)with the Federal gov't under Nixon, or Reagan or the Bush family. Can you say Hypocrit, boys & girls? Sure you can, I knew you could.
4. Modern Liberalism rejects personal responsibility: Jeezus, you are a complete neocon parrot, aren't you? Rove would be proud. abortion on demand, As opposed to more children on social services? Rape victims bringing the child to term? Abortion only for the wealthy and connected? See bunky, it's a personal responsibility and a personal decision..NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS (or mine for that matter). government bail-outs, Yeah, like you and all your buddies just tore up those 2 welfare, err stimulus checks that the Shrub doled out during his two terms. Give me a break with this BS of yours. universal heath care, yeah, richest country in the world, yet hard working honest people can't afford to get sick...and if they can't afford those premium insurance deals, screw 'em. If the bean counters tell them they won't cover a necessary procedure, tough luck. Do you ever think before you type? support of unions, Sure, management is NEVER at fault....it's all those dirty unions. Jeezus, ENRON has taught you NOTHING.....the S&L Scandal taught you NOTHING, and you've obviously been asleep for that last year as to who have been the major culprits in the country's economic troubles. WAKE UP! rejection of school choice. You mean attempts to disgard the public school and replace it with quality education for those who can afford it? Yeah, let's not fix the problem, let's just toss out the baby with the bath water.
Click to expand...


Well, all you've done is demonstrate an igorance of key issues, and (once again) try to substitute your opinion, supposition and conjecture as FACT and the LOGIC that derives from such. Carry on.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
You did okay until the last sentence. To date, you or any other neocon can logically and factually PROVE that statement. Riddle me this Batman....why is it that all the shredding to the Constitution and Bill of Rights done under the leadership and promotion of the Shrub & company in the last 8 years NOT under the same label as you place "modern liberalism"?

Damocles said:
It is.
Click to expand...

Sez who? Because if you read the PNAC list of contributors, then look at the movers & shakers in the Shrub's administration, then look at their actions and policies for the last 8 years, no one in their right mind would confuse the neocon driven GOP with "liberalism" in any shape, form or fashion.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
You did okay until the last sentence. To date, you or any other neocon can logically and factually PROVE that statement. Riddle me this Batman....why is it that all the shredding to the Constitution and Bill of Rights done under the leadership and promotion of the Shrub & company in the last 8 years NOT under the same label as you place "modern liberalism"?




Well, all you've done is demonstrate an igorance of key issues, and (once again) try to substitute your opinion, supposition and conjecture as FACT and the LOGIC that derives from such. Carry on.
Click to expand...
I see that your back to "rant mode" again. *shrug*

This cannot be disputed: modern conservatism means that we have a respect for the Constitution, limited government, and personal responsibility- just like the Founders.
 
Southern Man said:
I see that your back to "rant mode" again. *shrug*

This cannot be disputed: modern conservatism means that we have a respect for the Constitution, limited government, and personal responsibility- just like the Founders.
Click to expand...


You do realize that people can just scroll up or click back to see my FULL response to you Just Plain Politics! - View Single Post - Powell strikes back! ....and note what a foolish and insipidly stubborn person you are with this pathetic retort? Or are you truly this ignorant?

In either case, I've done my job by exposing how absurd and defenseless your statement is...and how tragic your attempt at a logical fact based debate is by reducing you to sheer repetition....so I'm done with you on this subject, bunky. You can flail away now.
 
Last edited:
Taichiliberal said:
You do realize that people can just scroll up or click back to see my FULL response to you Just Plain Politics! - View Single Post - Powell strikes back! ....and note what a foolish and insipidly stubborn person you are with this pathetic retort? Or are you truly this ignorant?

In either case, I've done my job by exposing how absurd and defenseless your statement is...and how tragic your attempt at a logical fact based debate is by reducing you to sheer repetition....so I'm done with you on this subject, bunky. You can flail away now.
Click to expand...
So after a week or so of spin culminating into almost admitting that I am right, you went right back into full emotional rant mode and refuse to acknowledge my rock solid assertion. Let me try another tack then.

Can explain to me, in your own words, how any one of these programs is Constitutional on the federal level: welfare, government housing, government run schools, or Affirmative Action.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
You did okay until the last sentence. To date, you or any other neocon can logically and factually PROVE that statement. Riddle me this Batman....why is it that all the shredding to the Constitution and Bill of Rights done under the leadership and promotion of the Shrub & company in the last 8 years NOT under the same label as you place "modern liberalism"?



Sez who? Because if you read the PNAC list of contributors, then look at the movers & shakers in the Shrub's administration, then look at their actions and policies for the last 8 years, no one in their right mind would confuse the neocon driven GOP with "liberalism" in any shape, form or fashion.
Click to expand...
The reality is the same tears in the constitution are appearing right now, I complained then, I complain now. The only difference.... liberals stopped complaining.

Instead of magically ending wiretapping with no warrants, we actually get it harder and faster with an argument added that you cannot sue them. Liberals, some barely mention it in some threads on this message board but otherwise ignore it, the rest... silence.

Tribunals... momentarily suspended, then started right back up again. Silence.

Iraq... Bush's time line... silence...

In all the things that supposedly mattered the most before the election, the things I heard the most about and often agreed with y'all about... all we get from you is silence and apology.

For the past 8 years I have spoken against the expansion of government by what normally would be my own party, but they bowed down to liberalism, heard the powerful sirens call of fascism. Bush was no conservative.
 
Southern Man said:
So after a week or so of spin culminating into almost admitting that I am right, you went right back into full emotional rant mode and refuse to acknowledge my rock solid assertion. Let me try another tack then.

Can explain to me, in your own words, how any one of these programs is Constitutional on the federal level: welfare, government housing, government run schools, or Affirmative Action.
Click to expand...


Wait until you find out that "done with you" means he'll continue ranting, for several more posts.

He's just a wall flower hoping to impress anyone, by trying to appear intelligent.

As usual, he fails and fails miserably
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top