President Bush, October 2002

[Care4all]

there were thousands of votes cast for Buchanan in a predominantly jewish neighborhood. Odds are that at LEAST 537 of them were cast in error by Jews who meant to vote for Gore. Pat B. himself stated that he had no doubt that those votes were NOT meant for him....

As it turned out, the carelessness of those handful of people fucked up the entire world. Shame on them.

Ain't that the TRUTH!

The butterfly ballot mistake.... is the one thing that changed the results of the election....that was the real issue that made there even be a "tie" in the first place, which triggered everything else...

not this bullcrap that if Gore had won his own state, or if the supreme court hadn't stepped in and had left it to the State as it was suppose to do....

the Butterfly ballot ALONE was the real issue and the real culpret of the whole fiasco....

no question in my mind!

care

 

[klaatu]

I don't see a relation of those two statements .....

You can control or operate upon others.... by unfair means without Lying....???

two different sins!

hahahaha.....

A salesman ( a sharp one) will use every tool at his disposal .. to the point of manipulating the customer .. doesnt neccessarily mean he is lying ....
He may be telling the customer what he wants to hear ...
I.E. A salesman can tell you that he can finance you even with bad credit, but he didnt tell you what the finance charges will be or that the interest rate is double the norm ... he is not lying...but he sure is manipulating.

If I tell you that a dictator is a bad person and wants to destroy your way of life.. so it is in our best interests to get rid of him before he does us any harm... Most of America bought into it .... not lies ..but the manipulation.

 

[Care4all]

A salesman ( a sharp one) will use every tool at his disposal .. to the point of manipulating the customer .. doesnt neccessarily mean he is lying ....
He may be telling the customer what he wants to hear ...
I.E. A salesman can tell you that he can finance you even with bad credit, but he didnt tell you what the finance charges will be or that the interest rate is double the norm ... he is not lying...but he sure is manipulating.

If I tell you that a dictator is a bad person and wants to destroy your way of life.. so it is in our best interests to get rid of him before he does us any harm... Most of America bought into it .... not lies ..but the manipulation.

If there was no proof that the Dictator wanted to ruin my life and this part was made up, then that's a lie....

and you did not reread the whole speech, there were MANY, MANY, MANY LIES in that speech....to focus on a "general feeling" instead of what got us to "feel" this way about the issue is short changing us, americans and what we expect of our Government imho....the TRUTH, ALWAYS......

 

[Care4all]

The truth must especially be expected and demanded of our Congress and Administration when we are sending our children off to be KILLED OR MAMED.

Shame on all of us...the news and the people for not asking more questions and proof from our govt before jumping in to war....

 

[Cypress]

The butterfly ballot was the least of Gore's injustices.

The supreme court stopping the statewide recount, was an unprecendented travesty.

And the overvotes were more important than the butterfly ballot votes.

People who both punched the hole for Gore, and wrote his name in the write-in slot, did not have their votes counted.

 

[Cypress]

.

A salesman ( a sharp one) will use every tool at his disposal .. to the point of manipulating the customer .. doesnt neccessarily mean he is lying ....

Good. I'm comfortable with that assessment: Bush manipulated and misled us into an unneccessary war.

 

[Immanuel]

LOL...no...I am, as you know, very pro-Israel....I have no problems with them at all...just the bunch of idiots in Florida who mistakenly voted for a nazi instead of Gore, and, in so doing, basically fucked up the whole world.

If I wasn't such a nice guy, I'd give you a "3-2-1".

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

A salesman ( a sharp one) will use every tool at his disposal .. to the point of manipulating the customer .. doesnt neccessarily mean he is lying ....
He may be telling the customer what he wants to hear ...
I.E. A salesman can tell you that he can finance you even with bad credit, but he didnt tell you what the finance charges will be or that the interest rate is double the norm ... he is not lying...but he sure is manipulating.

She is a retired sales person. I am certain that she used every means possible to make the sale. I find it very hard to reconcile my Christian beliefs with being a salesperson. How can one profess, "Thou shall not lie" and then do it everyday in one's job?



Immie

Uh Oh, that is going to get me in trouble.

 

[Damocles]

She is a retired sales person. I am certain that she used every means possible to make the sale. I find it very hard to reconcile my Christian beliefs with being a salesperson. How can one profess, "Thou shall not lie" and then do it everyday in one's job?



Immie

Uh Oh, that is going to get me in trouble.

It is also contrary to Buddhist Principles. Hence, were I a saleperson, I would have to truly believe in the product to be able to educate people rather than manipulate them...

 

[Care4all]

The butterfly ballot was the least of Gore's injustices.

The supreme court stopping the statewide recount, was an unprecendented travesty.

And the overvotes were more important than the butterfly ballot votes.

People who both punched the hole for Gore, and wrote his name in the write-in slot, did not have their votes counted.

This is very true! To me, all overvotes that had the one candidate picked that was also the same candidate hand writen in, should be a vote that counts, for either side...those that checked bush and wrote his name in too!

 

[OrnotBitwise]

Correction .... not lies ... a very well constructed speech meant to support a preoncieved plan. Big difference...
Remember ... the Intellegence Report was not correct, Iraq once had the WMD's that he spoke of, to believe that they didnt is to ignore what Saddam did to his own people. We know this to be true.

So ... it was a very crafty manipulative speech ... and it worked ... but with terrible results.

From Merriam-Webster again:

Main Entry: lie
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): lied; ly·ing /'lI-i[ng]/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lEogan; akin to Old High German liogan to lie, Old Church Slavic lugati
intransitive verb
1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2 : to create a false or misleading impression

-- emphasis added. O.B.

No offense, Klaatu, but the distinction you allude to is immaterial. He was lying, either way.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

crafty manipulation to mislead us....
that by definition is a "lie"......note number 2.


Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary






lie
16 entries found for lie. The first 10 are listed below.
To select an entry, click on it. For more results, click here.
lie[1,intransitive verb]lie[2,noun]lie[3,verb]lie[4,noun]LieLie[1]big liegive[1,verb]lie bylie detector

Main Entry: 3lie
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): lied; ly·ing /'lI-i[ng]/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lEogan; akin to Old High German liogan to lie, Old Church Slavic lugati
intransitive verb

1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive

2 : to create a false or misleading impression

Woops! Looks like Care beat me to the punch.

 

[Cypress]

.

I dont like the word lie because it has become the standard slogan of Democrat Propganda.. , its like Franken and Moore wrote the playbook, I wish the party would take the high road and stop using it....

The bush admin knew there was no evidence Iraq had a nuke program, or had collaborative ties to al qaeda....but they said they did anyway.

If thats not a lie, I don't know what is.

 

[Care4all]

When I was 16-23 I was a sales person on the sales floor of a department store or Shoe store, and quite frankly I never lied or mislead the customer to buy anything.....I just informed her of the features and benefits of each product, I also got her shoe size from the back stock, and I also put the shoes on her feet if I could, to make the sale....but never, ever mislead, any customer...in fact, I lost many sales because of my honesty and telling the customer that, the shoes just didn't fit her well....

After that, I was a buyer and merchandiser and then in Product Marketing, and again...never had to lie about anything that I developed or was promoting to the retailer.

 

[OrnotBitwise]

I dont like the word lie because it has become the standard slogan of Democrat Propganda.. , its like Franken and Moore wrote the playbook, I wish the party would take the high road and stop using it....

The bush admin knew there was no evidence Iraq had a nuke program, or had collaborative ties to al qaeda....but they said they did anyway.

If thats not a lie, I don't know what is.

I'm not sure that I see any substantive distinction between lying, on the one hand, and manipulating people's impressions on the other. They're just different words for the same thing.

And yes, marketing and sales are fundamentally dishonest. There may be -- probably are -- acceptable levels of dishonesty, but let's not kid ourselves about distinctions that don't really exist.

 

[Damocles]

This is very true! To me, all overvotes that had the one candidate picked that was also the same candidate hand writen in, should be a vote that counts, for either side...those that checked bush and wrote his name in too!

I remember hearing about one small county where quite a few of these Bush votes existed, but were not counted....

 

[Cypress]

I'm not sure that I see any substantive distinction between lying, on the one hand, and manipulating people's impressions on the other. They're just different words for the same thing.

And yes, marketing and sales are fundamentally dishonest. There may be -- probably are -- acceptable levels of dishonesty, but let's not kid ourselves about distinctions that don't really exist.

Excellent point. Manipulating someone into buyin a lawnmower, is substantively different than manipulating a nation into a war.

 

[evince]

how you can read that speach adn call jit anything but lies is beyond me.

How partisan can you get people

 

[Cypress]

I remember hearing about one small county where quite a few of these Bush votes existed, but were not counted....

That's what the independent statewide recount showed, later.

That is all the "legally-cast" votes were counted (including overvotes and undervotes, where voter intent was clear), then Gore won the state by thousands of votes.

 

[Care4all]

I'm not sure that I see any substantive distinction between lying, on the one hand, and manipulating people's impressions on the other. They're just different words for the same thing.

And yes, marketing and sales are fundamentally dishonest. There may be -- probably are -- acceptable levels of dishonesty, but let's not kid ourselves about distinctions that don't really exist.

I disagree totally!

I firmly believed in the product that I created or developed... I believed in the quality of my materials, I believed in the factory I chose to develop them in and the engineers that were going to "get the graduated sizes" right when they developed the lasts to make them on, I believed in the features and benefits that we all developed and put in to the product, the shoes.....we made our NAME on COMFORT and we developed our product knowing this mission.

So when it came time to promote the product with marketing, I felt very confident that every word and arrow pointing to a feature or benefit of the product in the ad was the truth.

And when I showed this product at the trade shows, the same as above, no lies needed to sell the product, especially since my company made its name through having product with propriatory features.....features that we trademarked and registered, so that none of our competition could make the same claims....

no lying involved in making retailers to purchase the product....HONESTLY!

care