Priest says Hell is an invention of the church to control people with fear

PostmodernProphet said:
Jesus specifically mentioned paradise when he spoke to the thief on the cross......it would seem to me that being someplace else besides Paradise is a hell of a place to find yourself.....
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It is where Orthodoxy, fundamentalism, literalism has perverted the Mythos.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Yeah and I wouldn't refuse a blood transfusion because of something in the Bible either, am I going to Hell? Well no, because it doesn't exist!
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Again, you are mixing your standard. You told me to ignore the Old Testament, so I did. (Although the transfusion thing is a messed up translation issue, not something actually ordered).

I speak of what Christ himself spoke of, in that New Testament you said you didn't ignore. When the Deity Himself, walking and talking on Earth, speaks of something I thought that you Christians would maybe pay at least as much attention as people paid to E.F. Hutton in one of his commercials back in the day... I'm not attacking here, I'm just trying to figure out where you draw that line. You ignore what your God says, you ignore the Old Testament (which I said I could sort of understand), you ignore anything you think might disagree with whatever you want to believe...

Where is the religion part of this supposed religion of yours?

 
Damocles said:
I speak of what Christ himself spoke of, in that New Testament you said you didn't ignore. When the Deity Himself, walking and talking on Earth, speaks of something I thought that you Christians would maybe pay at least as much attention as people paid to E.F. Hutton in one of his commercials back in the day.
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Damo, there are things that changed when Christ came, as he said, to fulfill the OT laws of sanctification.....and there are things that changed regarding judgment and punishment......Christian doctrine isn't secretive about those changes and there are reasons for what you label as things we simply "ignore"......
 
RedString said:
Damo, do you believe Jesus Christ wrote the new testament or the Gospels?
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Nope. I don't believe in Jesus.

Hell turns many Christians into the Devil. They believe their desires make them evil. They cannot resist their desires and their dumbass religion tells them that they are evil for them. So they embrace their "devil" and go to war on "God"... the good.. or they find a new good.

There is no Christ and even attempting that model will reduce your options until you are paralyzed or a hypocrite. But then some people don't bother reading the book or they claim that one part is literal and the other is not. There is wisdom in the book but as a whole it's all bs designed to control you. Just the same as the lyrics they spit into microphones and or words they spill on to manuscripts. There is no plot, because the devil is a figment of the imagination. People will pay you to turn them into puppet and puppet masters. They will beg you to do it and then hate you for doing it. There is very little chance that one will ever be one or the other.

They want to get the kiddies excited enough to move. But they are stuck because you frightened them. They can't please you by following that stupid code and they know it. Maybe, they can just dumb themselves down a little more. Or maybe they will go off to college and become an atheist asshole, like those people you hate.

This is why conservatives get lots of votes from very poor people. Those dummies that we all mock, believe it. They REALLY believe it! The studious ones studied it. It was important to them over even homework because their parents did not care about money. They just wasted their kids to be good Christians.

That book is nothing but animal husbandry. How to be a good shepherd. How to be a good father. How to be a good leader. Absolutely, written by men for men. There is plenty of wisdom. As a whole it is all just a fairytale designed to teach you a lesson and it does so incoherently even though they tightly controlled the canon. That is why they kept it from the masses for as long as they could. They knew it was impossible to apply literally and they did not want anyone challenging their interpretations.

This guy has studied. But I am sure every Christian who disagrees will tell us how he has no clue because of one passage in the bible or another. And the book that did not make it? Secondary sources? Anything from them? This guy considered a LOT MORE than one passage.



Forget Christ. He aint coming to save us. No, John Galt either. I will take a Martin Luther. Any improvement is better than this nonsense.
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You are speaking to the wrong audience.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
Damo, there are things that changed when Christ came, as he said, to fulfill the OT laws of sanctification.....and there are things that changed regarding judgment and punishment......Christian doctrine isn't secretive about those changes and there are reasons for what you label as things we simply "ignore"......
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Ignoring Hell because you dislike the idea is silly, Christ himself, that "fulfillment" spoke of Gehenna (again, three words are used in the New Testament to speak of Hell, only one of which is the actual bad destination, Christ used that one). I'm asking why you would say that it was a "change" and that Hell doesn't exist. When the Deity, the Christ, the Savior himself spoke of the destination it seems that it would be one of those things you don't suddenly say doesn't exist if you are going to say you believe in that Deity, Christ, Messiah, The Word...
 
Damocles said:
Ignoring Hell because you dislike the idea is silly, Christ himself, that "fulfillment" spoke of Gehenna (again, three words are used in the New Testament to speak of Hell, only one of which is the actual bad destination, Christ used that one). I'm asking why you would say that it was a "change" and that Hell doesn't exist. When the Deity, the Christ, the Savior himself spoke of the destination it seems that it would be one of those things you don't suddenly say doesn't exist if you are going to say you believe in that Deity, Christ, Messiah, The Word...
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??....I don't recall ever saying hell didn't exist.....I believe "hell" is that part of the after life which is not "paradise".....I was merely pointing out that where Christian doctrine "ignores" the OT, there are doctrinal reasons specifically set forth in the NT.....
 
As I recall, the doctrine of Hell is unique to the NT. Judaism never really distinguished between Heaven and Hell. Some Jews didn't even believe in an afterlife. Those that did had a sort of Greek concept, where everyone went to the same place.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
??....I don't recall ever saying hell didn't exist.....I believe "hell" is that part of the after life which is not "paradise".....I was merely pointing out that where Christian doctrine "ignores" the OT, there are doctrinal reasons specifically set forth in the NT.....
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Right, which I signified with the "I can understand the "OT/NT" reasons...

Basically, this thread is about some Priest who decided that he didn't like the idea of Hell and he thinks that the church invented it.

What I'm wondering is why somebody who professes to believe in this religion would ignore what Christ is quoted as saying to replace it with they want rather than what it says.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Do you have to believe in Hell to be a Christian?
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To be a Christian, you have to believe in the mass-murderer psychopathic deity that it worships...so yes, I'd say you have to believe in Hell to be a real Christian -- or a real Muslim, for that matter.
 
Damocles said:
Right, which I signified with the "I can understand the "OT/NT" reasons...

Basically, this thread is about some Priest who decided that he didn't like the idea of Hell and he thinks that the church invented it.

What I'm wondering is why somebody who professes to believe in this religion would ignore what Christ is quoted as saying to replace it with they want rather than what it says.
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Actually, if you study the early Christian writings you will discover that "hell" as in eternal punishment, was a later tenet incorporated into Christianity, like around 625AD. Origen and a lot of early Christian writers did not believe in Dante's concept of hell. There were many different Christian sects that were literally "killed off" by Orthodoxy, literalism, fundamentalism. Karen Armstrongs "History of God" is a very enlightening book. I am currently reading , "The Christ Conspiracy", also a gret read. Christianity wasn't clear cut but evolved over many centuries and as in the case of this priest is still evolving because people aren't buying into it as they once did, so many things about the myth have been shown to be in error.
 
Damocles said:
Right, which I signified with the "I can understand the "OT/NT" reasons...

Basically, this thread is about some Priest who decided that he didn't like the idea of Hell and he thinks that the church invented it.

What I'm wondering is why somebody who professes to believe in this religion would ignore what Christ is quoted as saying to replace it with they want rather than what it says.
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dude.....we have liberal theologians that argue it doesn't matter if Jesus was really the Christ.....they argue so long as you treat people nice and die happy its no big deal........that has nothing at all to do with Christianity......
 
Rana said:
Actually, if you study the early Christian writings you will discover that "hell" as in eternal punishment, was a later tenet incorporated into Christianity, like around 625AD. Origen and a lot of early Christian writers did not believe in Dante's concept of hell. There were many different Christian sects that were literally "killed off" by Orthodoxy, literalism, fundamentalism. Karen Armstrongs "History of God" is a very enlightening book. I am currently reading , "The Christ Conspiracy", also a gret read. Christianity wasn't clear cut but evolved over many centuries and as in the case of this priest is still evolving because people aren't buying into it as they once did, so many things about the myth have been shown to be in error.
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Isn't it amazing how religion can only seem to go backwards.
 
Rana said:
Actually, if you study the early Christian writings you will discover that "hell" as in eternal punishment, was a later tenet incorporated into Christianity, like around 625AD. Origen and a lot of early Christian writers did not believe in Dante's concept of hell. There were many different Christian sects that were literally "killed off" by Orthodoxy, literalism, fundamentalism. Karen Armstrongs "History of God" is a very enlightening book. I am currently reading , "The Christ Conspiracy", also a gret read. Christianity wasn't clear cut but evolved over many centuries and as in the case of this priest is still evolving because people aren't buying into it as they once did, so many things about the myth have been shown to be in error.
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Actually if you study what I wrote here you would fully understand that Christ himself spoke of it as a destination.
 
RedString said:
So why are you talking about christianity?
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I am asking questions of a Christian. If we use this as the standard, why have you ever spoken of Christianity? Seriously, that is a silly question. I speak of it because I am interested in what these people believe, why they pick and choose what they do. It is easy to understand the New Covenant and why it is no longer required you not wear clothing made from two different types of material, and why somebody would ignore the old purity strictures that are specifically spoken of as no longer required in Romans... It is less easy to me to understand why a Christian would ignore the words of their own Deity.

Basically, I am using the knowledge gained in a youth forced to study this particular religion in the original languages because I was bold enough to tell them I didn't believe... I've spoken about it several times on the site.

That I understand that the actual person of Christ is quoted using the actual word used to speak of the place, and speaking of it as a destination gives me pause and makes me wonder why one would profess to believe the religion at all if the words of their own Deity are a portion they choose to ignore. At that point, how can you think you believe?
 
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