First, I thought we weren't supposed to like each other. :0( I'm seeing no evidence of that. :0)
Most people are what their parents are/were. If their parents were Catholic, Muslim, or Jewish .. that's what they are. So they didn't come to their religion by study or comparative analysis .. they came to it by birth and culture. Thus, there is never a real need to study the religious text they accept in any critical or even historical way. The Bible is no exception.
I have never said that I don't like you bac, I disagree with you politically.
Some people are what their parents are/were, I'll agree... but not all, and probably not even most. A lot of children rebel against what their parents believe, but I fail to see what this has to do with the argument. We were discussing where God mandates that we praise him, and you haven't shown me that.
You just read it. It is a passage from the Bible. Do you think this isn't taught to believers in church?
You just read the word "praise" mentioned 10 times in a single babile passage .. and you still don't see it?
Yes, I can read the word "praise" a billion times, it still doesn't say that God REQUIRES you to praise him. That was your claim, and what I challenged. So far, you are having difficulty finding a passage in the Bible that says God
commands us to praise him. I see where it says we SHOULD do this, which is what I said.... Christianity teaches we
SHOULD WANT TO praise God for the many blessings he has given us. It doesn't say God requires this or commands it.
Not sure how you don't see it. Christians are being commanded to "serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart" .. else suffer his wrath.
Yes,
SERVE him... and do it with gladness and joyfulness... it doesn't say God requires you to PRAISE him. I serve my boss everyday, I do it with gladness and joyfulness, but I don't PRAISE my boss, and he doesn't demand that I do.
Is thia a God, or a vengeful and spiteful human?
I don't know, it is the teaching of a religious doctrine. Whether or not the specified doctrine is true or not, has no bearing on whether an actual spiritual entity exists. As I said, religion is mankind's way of comprehending something he can't comprehend. This could be the way some man decided was best to convey his understanding of the spiritual entity? I have no problem with you challenging that, or not believing in it. That doesn't mean that there is no God, and God doesn't exist.
? So you discount the Bible? I do .. but is that your argument?
The Bible has no bearing on whether or not a supernatural spiritual entity exists. The Bible is a religious text, written and compiled by men, who developed a religious doctrine of belief around their comprehensions of a spiritual entity, which they didn't understand. It may be completely filled with flaws and misunderstandings, that doesn't prove God doesn't exist. Men use the Bible to teach philosophical views of how to behave and be a 'good' Christian, I have no idea if their ideas are correct or not, and it doesn't matter... it doesn't mean that God can't exist in some other perceptive form. Most Christians (maybe all) believe that Jesus was born as the son of God....God in human form. Most of their religion is based around his teachings and philosophy. I don't know if Jesus was the actual living son of God, or if his philosophy and understanding of God is correct. It doesn't matter... again, it has no bearing on whether or not an actual spiritual entity exists.
How about this .. God doesn't have to exist at all. Nature is the most powerful force that humans will ever see .. and Nature requires no praise, no obedience. It only requires the understanding of its forces, and the preservation of its wonder.
But the thing is, I know that some spiritual supernatural force DOES exist... or is present.... we can parse what 'exists' means. I don't believe this force is evil, and I don't believe it "requires" anything of us. I also believe a spiritual supernatural force exists which is evil. Likewise, I don't believe it needs or requires us to do anything. I believe we can tap into these forces, especially the positive one, because I often have. I've even taught others how to do this, and they agree, the force does exist and is real. I also believe it is entirely possible, this positive force may have had something to do with 'Nature' and construction of it, along with humanity and everything we know as life. I feel that it has had to battle the evil force along the way, which can be just as 'omnipotent' at times. How man has defined these things, is not my argument... "God" or "The Devil" ...these are images we created to try and comprehend what we can't comprehend. They have no bearing on these forces which DO exist around us.
How about this .. God was invented by humans. The only evidence of its existence is in the mind of the believer.
I think you have a rather shallow interpretation of "God." I think that is where you trouble lies. You believe that Christian's God doesn't exist in a physical sense, because there is no physical proof. I can agree with that. The thing is, you don't know if there might be a spiritual entity you don't understand, and maybe even the Christians don't understand, out there somewhere, controlling nature and everything else. You don't know, and you won't ever know, because you reject the possibility. This gives you satisfaction, to remain closed-minded to the possibility, and it gives you peace of mind to believe you have it all figured out. On the other hand, what if you are wrong? What if there is a force out there, and you just don't understand the potential of it, or what it can do for you?
As I said in the OP, whether God exists, is a matter of personal faith. That is ultimately the only way the question can be answered.
Of course there is .. along with the admonition that God is a jealous God. You've lost me. Do you believe in the Bible or not?
I don't believe the Bible or Christianity teach that God
requires praise. You've still not shown that to be the case. You can say that Christians believe we SHOULD praise God... joyfully, with cymbals clashing... that isn't saying God
requires this. Your daughter should tell you she loves you, but do your require it?
Do I believe in the Bible? Well, that's an interesting question. I suppose I do believe in a lot of what the Bible teaches as philosophy for a good life, if it is adhered to. I don't know if it is THE word of God, but it certainly seems to be spiritually inclined. It leads me to believe it is a construction of mankind's attempts to understand the supernatural spiritual entity that does exist, although... we are humans, and incapable of comprehending it. This would also explain the religious beliefs of 95% of the people who worship something greater than self. Our "religious" constructions, are merely our human way of trying to understand and comprehend something out of our realm of comprehension. Whether they are correct or incorrect, has no bearing on whether or not, in fact, a supernatural force is there.
Yes, there is LOTS, and most of these pull-quotes have entire chapters that go with them, to put them in context that is intentionally discarded here. That is often the case when arguing "Religion" ...I'm not here to argue Religion. I don't know if the Bible is right, or if we can take it too literally. I don't know if it was maybe misinterpreted in one of the many translations... There is quite a bit that can be debated about the Bible and what people interpret it to mean, but not one bit of it has anything to do with whether or not a spiritual entity actually exists.
Then what makes you believe that God exists?
The same thing that makes you believe the Big Bang suddenly caused all the matter in the universe to exist.... FAITH.
I rely on my intelligence to tell me that when we observe a species exhibiting the same rituals of behavior for the entirety of its existence, there is something fundamentally important about it. I can't dismiss it as a fallacy or fluke, because it is there for our entire existence as a species, we have worshiped some greater power. The fact that my physical sciences can offer no proof, doesn't make me believe that something doesn't exist in a spiritual sense, and I believe it is utterly stupid to make that assumption. It's not only stupid in a spiritual sense, it is stupid in a scientific sense, because science doesn't draw conclusions on things it can't explain... that is the ANTITHESIS of science.
