APP - Protectionism: Our Only Hope

AssHatZombie said:
Not at all. Trade policy should be sculpted to enrich working class americans, not to drive their wages down for the profiteering of a fascist minority.
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Protectionist policies are sculpted to enrich certain favored industries at the cost of all consumers/workers.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Nice personal attack, devoid of substance. Carry on, loser.
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Yeah, because you never attacked Low with one of your typical sexually frustrated one-liners first.

Lowaicue said:
You are both wrong.
Protectionism and globalisation cannot be reduced to sound bites. There are potentially huge successes and potentially huge disasters in each.
It all depends on how these things are managed. There is nothing wrong with exporting jobs if it frees up home labour to be engaged in more profitable industries. There is nothing wrong with high profits providing the ethics of the day are honoured.
Even those simplifications cannot tell the whole story. You cannot criticise Coca Cola for being a global brand and while you might be critical of some industries for using cheap overseas labour it does mean their products are affordable to you, thus keeping inflation under some sort of control.
So in this instance the answer is the same as for the question, 'how long is a piece of string?'
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Meh, my p=r line is mostly just a means to get Asshate's blood pressure to skyrocket. However, in the US of A, calling something racist is a convenient way to end a debate. Since people are calling for protectionism from really just one country (China), its hard to ignore the irony of the situation. After all, it wasn't long ago that people were screaming of the "Asian Invasion," and every decade we get "threatened" by a new Asian manufacturing market, bet it Japan, India, or China.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Protectionism and disengagement from entangling alliances is our only hope for a future.
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I agree with you that we ought to follow the advice of many founding fathers and reject entangling alliances. Where we disagree is protectionism, because it's a lose-lose situation.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
that seems so anti-libertarian......you want the government to interfere in the market place?.....profit from restrictions on trade?....use the law to set prices?......
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Im not a libertarian. Markets need to be contstrained to operate within overarching moral frameworks, and to operate to support other national goals. What are those goals? Raising the median wage? or making sure bankers are immunized from their own egregious errors? Were you against the bailouts? What about the free market in that situation? No good because it would hurt a bunch of rich wallstreet people? No bank is systemically important. Any fool can take money from the government and pass it around at interest.


I believe in busting monopolies? Do you? do you believe in anti-dumping laws?

This is not a free market, it is a centrally planned market, planned by bankers, the federal reserve, and big business.

No fiat currency economy is fair. The power of money creation is a totalitarian power which necessarily perverts social relations, value, and human reality itself.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Im not a libertarian. Markets need to be contstrained to operate within overarching moral frameworks, and to operate to support other national goals. What are those goals? Raising the median wage? or making sure bankers are immunized from their own egregious errors? Were you against the bailouts? What about the free market in that situation? No good because it would hurt a bunch of rich wallstreet people? No bank is systemically important. Any fool can take money from the government and pass it around at interest.


I believe in busting monopolies? Do you? do you believe in anti-dumping laws?

This is not a free market, it is a centrally planned market, planned by bankers, the federal reserve, and big business.

No fiat currency economy is fair. The power of money creation is a totalitarian power which necessarily perverts social relations, value, and human reality itself.
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hmmm....I've seen you argue against conservativism, liberalism, now libertarianism.....what ARE you?.....

I believe in busting monopolies that interfere with a free economy....dumping also interferes...the bailouts interfered....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
hmmm....I've seen you argue against conservativism, liberalism, now libertarianism.....what ARE you?.....

I believe in busting monopolies that interfere with a free economy....dumping also interferes...the bailouts interfered....
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I'm an american.

WHen government and business elites are engaged in a war on the middle class, It's peeves me.
 
Another aspect of neocon foolishness is the belief that totally free market leads to 8 hr work days and fair treatment. That is provably wrong. We have just forgotten the labor struggles of the past. These are not LEFTY notions. They're humane notions.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Yes. the ones in power. The elites.
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No. ALL Americans. Untenable mortgage holders, credit card debtors, purchasers of gas guzzlers, people who consumed and polluted more than any other on the planet, Wall street, Main street, small town and city. All Americans were part of the system that failed.

But

There was nothing you could do about it because you were all scared shitless of those terrible Al Quaeda guys blowing you up in your beds.
 
Lowaicue said:
No. ALL Americans. Untenable mortgage holders, credit card debtors, purchasers of gas guzzlers, people who consumed and polluted more than any other on the planet, Wall street, Main street, small town and city. All Americans were part of the system that failed.

But

There was nothing you could do about it because you were all scared shitless of those terrible Al Quaeda guys blowing you up in your beds.
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Wrong. The "we're all to blame" bs is a way of shifting guilt from the true perpetrators.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
dodge....are you simply against everything?....
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No. I'm for policies which strenthen americans on along term basis. Not ones which destroy our general standard of living, production capacity, and even national security for the short term profit of a few ceos and politicians.
 
Lowaicue said:
No. Blaming others is a way of avoiding your own guilt.
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Our policians have been doing what's good for corprations for years, and not what's good for the future of the nation or it;s people. I don't and won't blame myself for this complete corruption of our government.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Our policians have been doing what's good for corprations for years, and not what's good for the future of the nation or it;s people. I don't and won't blame myself for this complete corruption of our government.
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Of course they have. That's the name of the game. Either they are corrupt, in which case the citizenry will get rid of them, or they are doing what the majority want, in which case they will stay. You will never get 100% consensus, that's why we have various forms of democracy. Some are better in some circumstances than others. Ultimately it is up to the electorate to persuade enough people to keep or change.
Whilst you may be right about many things it is as well to look at the possible alternatives.
I hate to say this, because I am sure that it goes against every red corpuscle in your body, but a totalitarian system such as that practised in China is, in some respects, better than the democracies we have been playing with for years. They have progressed more in the last 60 years than Europe or the US. granted they started from a lot further back but it is the US that owes China money not the other way round.
 
Lowaicue said:
Of course they have. That's the name of the game. Either they are corrupt, in which case the citizenry will get rid of them, or they are doing what the majority want, in which case they will stay. You will never get 100% consensus, that's why we have various forms of democracy. Some are better in some circumstances than others. Ultimately it is up to the electorate to persuade enough people to keep or change.
Whilst you may be right about many things it is as well to look at the possible alternatives.
I hate to say this, because I am sure that it goes against every red corpuscle in your body, but a totalitarian system such as that practised in China is, in some respects, better than the democracies we have been playing with for years. They have progressed more in the last 60 years than Europe or the US. granted they started from a lot further back but it is the US that owes China money not the other way round.
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The citizenry does not have the power to get rid of them. Only the ones who believes in the same corrupt mentality get the go ahead and funding from the money and power brokers. There is no real choice.

China is an utter failure, in human terms.
 
AssHatZombie said:
The citizenry does not have the power to get rid of them. Only the ones who believes in the same corrupt mentality get the go ahead and funding from the money and power brokers. There is no real choice.

China is an utter failure, in human terms.
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Been there?
 
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