Racism Extinct? Or, Republicans just stupid?

Cancel7

Banned
I report, you decide.

Here is great essay from Eric Alterman about race. What is really interesting is all of the studies he cites, one showing that whites with criminal records will be hired for the same position a black male with no criminal record applied for, at far higher rates. I feel that this is especially important for Cawacko and Leaningright to read, given their quite astoundingly naive comments on the obama thread, claiming that southerners aren't refusing to support obama based on race, because they "told them so". No offense.


"According to a package of three studies released by Pew Charitable Trusts and discussed on the front page of today's Washington Post, here, "Nearly half of African Americans born to middle-income parents in the late 1960s plunged into poverty or near-poverty as adults, according to a new study -- a perplexing finding that analysts say highlights the fragile nature of middle-class life for many African Americans. ... Forty-five percent of black children whose parents were solidly middle class in 1968 -- a stratum with a median income of $55,600 in inflation-adjusted dollars -- grew up to be among the lowest fifth of the nation's earners, with a median family income of $23,100. Only 16 percent of whites experienced similar downward mobility. At the same time, 48 percent of black children whose parents were in an economic bracket with a median family income of $41,700 sank into the lowest income group."

This is a terrible problem for American society; it's the American Nightmare, not the American Dream. We like to kid ourselves that we are the most mobile society in the world, but we're not even close. Not only is every country in Scandinavia ahead of us in this respect, so even is hidebound, class-riven Britain.

This is true at nearly every level of society. According to two separate studies based on a set of data collected over a period of five decades, the Nordic countries enjoy considerably greater degrees of social mobility than do Americans. In the United States, a son's earnings are more than twice as likely to be closely related to that of his father's than in most Nordic nations, and even Britain does a much better job at offering second-generation earners a higher probability of economic improvement than does the United States. This is true across the board, but it is at the bottom rung where the failure of the American system is most apparent. In the Nordic nations, for instance, three-quarters of those on welfare had moved up and out of the system by the time they reached their 40s, but barely more than half of their American counterparts had. As the editors of The Economist (subscription required) put it, "In other words, Nordic countries have almost completely snapped the link between the earnings of parents and children at and near the bottom. That is not at all true of America." In Britain, too, fully 70 percent of those enmeshed in the welfare system had moved out within a single generation, again -- a higher percentage than in America. The magazine points to the generous tax and welfare provisions for families as "the obvious explanation for greater mobility in the Nordic countries ... especially when compared with America's."

But when you tie it together with the problems of race, it's an explosive situation that leads to oppression in the name of personal security and crackpot racist theories about black genetic inferiority (and Jewish genetic superiority) promoted by the likes of Charles Murray and his voluntary publicists, Andrew Sullivan, Marty Peretz, and the entire Podhoretz mispucha over at the Commentary Dry Cleaning and Neoconservatism.

Part of the problem is that most white people, save the best educated -- and this is borne out by studies as well; it is not simply class snobbery -- will not accept the fact that racism continues to stymie black progress. They blame all of black America's problems on the breakdown of the black family; as a cause, rather than a symptom.

As both individuals and corporations grow more sophisticated in their ability to mask deliberate racial discrimination, the phenomenon becomes harder to demonstrate as a matter of law, or even journalism. But almost every day, those of us who are impressed by evidence find ourselves confronted by extremely worrisome examples of pervasive racial and ethnic discrimination in the United States. Absent the continuing power of institutional racism, Florida Republicans would never have been able to disenfranchise black voters during the 2000 elections by, in Doug Massey's words, "systematically allocating older, error-prone voting machines to black precincts; by illegally purging black voters from registration rolls through a variety of ruses; by systematically blocking the access of African Americans to polling places through police activity; and by blanketing black precincts with direct mail and fliers announcing that it was illegal for anyone arrested for a 'crime' (as opposed to convicted of a felony) to vote and that 'illegal' voting would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (thus frightening many would-be voters)."

And again, absent the continuing power of both personal and institutional racism, would the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, staffed by Bush appointees, have found that the Kodak Corporation was paying black workers less than similarly situated whites, promoting them less frequently and when they complained, either harassing or firing them? Sure, Kodak may have been an exception to the rule, but a black job seeker might well have considered such treatment to be the norm rather than the exception. Author Andrew Hacker notes that in studies of black and white job-seekers with identical résumés who apply for publicly advertised jobs, we find incontrovertible evidence of "systemic discrimination that cannot be attributed to differences in skills between comparably educated blacks and whites." In one study, undertaken by the Urban Institute in Chicago and Washington, D.C., in the early 1990s, applicants were trained for jobs with nearly identical résumés to present themselves in exactly the same way in interviews. The result: Black males were three times as likely to be rejected as white males. Other studies have found that among applicants who were offered jobs, whites were offered higher salaries. Another study discovered that whites' applications were more successful than blacks' even when the whites had criminal records and the otherwise identical blacks did not. And when we read a story about say, a sorority at DePauw University in Greencastle, Indiana, ejecting every single black, Korean, Vietnamese (and overweight) member from its group residence, does anyone really think that racism plays no significant role in the lives of its potential victims?

Not surprisingly, statistical evidence demonstrates continuing legacies of racism in virtually every aspect of our education system. Black and Hispanic high school students, for instance, continue to read and do arithmetic at only the average level of whites in junior high school, a gap that has remained in place despite the implementation of the so-called "No Child Left Behind" law. Unless one is willing to embrace the racist pseudoscience of the likes of Charles Murray, which posits the intellectual inferiority of blacks and Hispanics to whites (and particularly Jews), then one has to ask what factors are at work here. And while no liberal would argue that cultural patterns inside communities of color do not have an effect -- including particularly absentee parenthood, the lack of positive role models in ghetto communities, and the glorification in rap music of anti-social behavior -- one cannot escape the conclusion that the contemporary manifestation of hundreds of years of white racism continues to play a significant role in the achievement gap. It's no coincidence, after all, that the schools with the largest minority student bodies are also the ones with the weakest tax base and the poorest families attending. And this, too, is no coincidence.

Part of the problem, to be sure, can be found in the media's portrayal of racial issues. As Robert M. Entman and Andrew Rojecki demonstrate at length in their study The Black Image in the White Mind, a sampling of the network news from 1997 shows blacks in basically three ways: "entertainer, sports figure or object of discrimination." A more detailed study of just ABC News shows found that the network "mainly discusses Blacks as such when they suffer or commit crime, or otherwise fall victim and require attention from government." As a result, "the news constructs African Americans as a distinct source of disruption." The authors note that since Caucasians are rarely featured in this way -- relative to the number of times they appear -- "The news can easily imply a baseline or ideal social condition in which far fewer serious problems would plague the society if only everyone in the United States were native-born whites."

All of these problems contribute to the horrible situation in which we find ourselves, in which black ghettos constitute a permanent underclass and breeding ground for social pathologies that are then exploited by the likes of Murray, Peretz, Sullivan, and Podhoretz, together with the Glenn Becks, the Imuses, the Rush Limbaughs, etc., to ensure that our society remains one where the poorest are the victims of the poor and near poor -- and vice versa, while the wealthy live behind gated communities, retaining all available privileges for themselves, all the while preaching the virtues of hard work and "playing by the rules."

http://mediamatters.org/altercation/
 
I always used to say that the rich getting richer doesn't hurt if the poor aren't getting poorer.

I have to face the facts, though. The poor ARE getting poorer, and there's one bastard to blame, senile Reagan.
 
I always used to say that the rich getting richer doesn't hurt if the poor aren't getting poorer.

I have to face the facts, though. The poor ARE getting poorer, and there's one bastard to blame, senile Reagan.

Reagan and the Southern Strategy worked to perfection...

All these Reagan Democrats....they are still around...just look at Desh...

CK
 
I report, you decide.

Here is great essay from Eric Alterman about race. What is really interesting is all of the studies he cites, one showing that whites with criminal records will be hired for the same position a black male with no criminal record applied for, at far higher rates. I feel that this is especially important for Cawacko and Leaningright to read, given their quite astoundingly naive comments on the obama thread, claiming that southerners aren't refusing to support obama based on race, because they "told them so". No offense.


"According to a package of three studies released by Pew Charitable Trusts and discussed on the front page of today's Washington Post, here, "Nearly half of African Americans born to middle-income parents in the late 1960s plunged into poverty or near-poverty as adults, according to a new study -- a perplexing finding that analysts say highlights the fragile nature of middle-class life for many African Americans. ... Forty-five percent of black children whose parents were solidly middle class in 1968 -- a stratum with a median income of $55,600 in inflation-adjusted dollars -- grew up to be among the lowest fifth of the nation's earners, with a median family income of $23,100. Only 16 percent of whites experienced similar downward mobility. At the same time, 48 percent of black children whose parents were in an economic bracket with a median family income of $41,700 sank into the lowest income group."

This is a terrible problem for American society; it's the American Nightmare, not the American Dream. We like to kid ourselves that we are the most mobile society in the world, but we're not even close. Not only is every country in Scandinavia ahead of us in this respect, so even is hidebound, class-riven Britain.

This is true at nearly every level of society. According to two separate studies based on a set of data collected over a period of five decades, the Nordic countries enjoy considerably greater degrees of social mobility than do Americans. In the United States, a son's earnings are more than twice as likely to be closely related to that of his father's than in most Nordic nations, and even Britain does a much better job at offering second-generation earners a higher probability of economic improvement than does the United States. This is true across the board, but it is at the bottom rung where the failure of the American system is most apparent. In the Nordic nations, for instance, three-quarters of those on welfare had moved up and out of the system by the time they reached their 40s, but barely more than half of their American counterparts had. As the editors of The Economist (subscription required) put it, "In other words, Nordic countries have almost completely snapped the link between the earnings of parents and children at and near the bottom. That is not at all true of America." In Britain, too, fully 70 percent of those enmeshed in the welfare system had moved out within a single generation, again -- a higher percentage than in America. The magazine points to the generous tax and welfare provisions for families as "the obvious explanation for greater mobility in the Nordic countries ... especially when compared with America's."

But when you tie it together with the problems of race, it's an explosive situation that leads to oppression in the name of personal security and crackpot racist theories about black genetic inferiority (and Jewish genetic superiority) promoted by the likes of Charles Murray and his voluntary publicists, Andrew Sullivan, Marty Peretz, and the entire Podhoretz mispucha over at the Commentary Dry Cleaning and Neoconservatism.

Part of the problem is that most white people, save the best educated -- and this is borne out by studies as well; it is not simply class snobbery -- will not accept the fact that racism continues to stymie black progress. They blame all of black America's problems on the breakdown of the black family; as a cause, rather than a symptom.

As both individuals and corporations grow more sophisticated in their ability to mask deliberate racial discrimination, the phenomenon becomes harder to demonstrate as a matter of law, or even journalism. But almost every day, those of us who are impressed by evidence find ourselves confronted by extremely worrisome examples of pervasive racial and ethnic discrimination in the United States. Absent the continuing power of institutional racism, Florida Republicans would never have been able to disenfranchise black voters during the 2000 elections by, in Doug Massey's words, "systematically allocating older, error-prone voting machines to black precincts; by illegally purging black voters from registration rolls through a variety of ruses; by systematically blocking the access of African Americans to polling places through police activity; and by blanketing black precincts with direct mail and fliers announcing that it was illegal for anyone arrested for a 'crime' (as opposed to convicted of a felony) to vote and that 'illegal' voting would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (thus frightening many would-be voters)."

And again, absent the continuing power of both personal and institutional racism, would the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, staffed by Bush appointees, have found that the Kodak Corporation was paying black workers less than similarly situated whites, promoting them less frequently and when they complained, either harassing or firing them? Sure, Kodak may have been an exception to the rule, but a black job seeker might well have considered such treatment to be the norm rather than the exception. Author Andrew Hacker notes that in studies of black and white job-seekers with identical résumés who apply for publicly advertised jobs, we find incontrovertible evidence of "systemic discrimination that cannot be attributed to differences in skills between comparably educated blacks and whites." In one study, undertaken by the Urban Institute in Chicago and Washington, D.C., in the early 1990s, applicants were trained for jobs with nearly identical résumés to present themselves in exactly the same way in interviews. The result: Black males were three times as likely to be rejected as white males. Other studies have found that among applicants who were offered jobs, whites were offered higher salaries. Another study discovered that whites' applications were more successful than blacks' even when the whites had criminal records and the otherwise identical blacks did not. And when we read a story about say, a sorority at DePauw University in Greencastle, Indiana, ejecting every single black, Korean, Vietnamese (and overweight) member from its group residence, does anyone really think that racism plays no significant role in the lives of its potential victims?

Not surprisingly, statistical evidence demonstrates continuing legacies of racism in virtually every aspect of our education system. Black and Hispanic high school students, for instance, continue to read and do arithmetic at only the average level of whites in junior high school, a gap that has remained in place despite the implementation of the so-called "No Child Left Behind" law. Unless one is willing to embrace the racist pseudoscience of the likes of Charles Murray, which posits the intellectual inferiority of blacks and Hispanics to whites (and particularly Jews), then one has to ask what factors are at work here. And while no liberal would argue that cultural patterns inside communities of color do not have an effect -- including particularly absentee parenthood, the lack of positive role models in ghetto communities, and the glorification in rap music of anti-social behavior -- one cannot escape the conclusion that the contemporary manifestation of hundreds of years of white racism continues to play a significant role in the achievement gap. It's no coincidence, after all, that the schools with the largest minority student bodies are also the ones with the weakest tax base and the poorest families attending. And this, too, is no coincidence.

Part of the problem, to be sure, can be found in the media's portrayal of racial issues. As Robert M. Entman and Andrew Rojecki demonstrate at length in their study The Black Image in the White Mind, a sampling of the network news from 1997 shows blacks in basically three ways: "entertainer, sports figure or object of discrimination." A more detailed study of just ABC News shows found that the network "mainly discusses Blacks as such when they suffer or commit crime, or otherwise fall victim and require attention from government." As a result, "the news constructs African Americans as a distinct source of disruption." The authors note that since Caucasians are rarely featured in this way -- relative to the number of times they appear -- "The news can easily imply a baseline or ideal social condition in which far fewer serious problems would plague the society if only everyone in the United States were native-born whites."

All of these problems contribute to the horrible situation in which we find ourselves, in which black ghettos constitute a permanent underclass and breeding ground for social pathologies that are then exploited by the likes of Murray, Peretz, Sullivan, and Podhoretz, together with the Glenn Becks, the Imuses, the Rush Limbaughs, etc., to ensure that our society remains one where the poorest are the victims of the poor and near poor -- and vice versa, while the wealthy live behind gated communities, retaining all available privileges for themselves, all the while preaching the virtues of hard work and "playing by the rules."

http://mediamatters.org/altercation/

I just re-read the Obama thread. Can you tell me naive comments you are referencing?
 
I just re-read the Obama thread. Can you tell me naive comments you are referencing?

Now i have to go looking for the posts?

Sometimes I wish that Prak would still be around to kick you around a little Cawacko, I mean I am feeling overworked, with all of these ronbots and libertarians with a capital "I" and libertarians with a halfcapped "I" and libertarians with no capped I's but extra foam around here, and you and your milton friedman jr crap.

Alright, wait a minute.
 
Here is my favorite naive comment by leaning right:

People are fooling themselves if they think racism is going to keep most southerners from voting for Obama. I was having a conversation Sunday over lunch with a State Senator and State Representative. They (both democrats by the way) were bemoaning the fact that Hillary will likely be the nominee of the democratic party. Both appeared to like Edwards much better and neither liked Obama, citing policy differences as the reason. Until people (republicans in general and democrats in particular) realize it is policy that matters and resonates with even the "knuckle dragging" southern voters the democrats and liberal republicans will have a terrible time winning in the south.

Because racists announce "I'm not voting for that guy, he's black!!"

And then you Cawacko, the three comments you made on that thread are all claiming that racism does exist and will play a part in any national election that has a black candidate? Can you point me to that part of your posts?

Because this appears to be implying that racism is not "holding him back":

If it's racism holding Obama back how do you account for the fact that polling shows Obama with less than half of the black vote? Are blacks self hating or racist against themselves?

But maybe I am reading it wrong, I am well known for my inability to comprehend basic reading and writing....wait, is it me who is well known for that? Well, whatever. lol
 
Here is my favorite naive comment by leaning right:

People are fooling themselves if they think racism is going to keep most southerners from voting for Obama. I was having a conversation Sunday over lunch with a State Senator and State Representative. They (both democrats by the way) were bemoaning the fact that Hillary will likely be the nominee of the democratic party. Both appeared to like Edwards much better and neither liked Obama, citing policy differences as the reason. Until people (republicans in general and democrats in particular) realize it is policy that matters and resonates with even the "knuckle dragging" southern voters the democrats and liberal republicans will have a terrible time winning in the south.

Because racists announce "I'm not voting for that guy, he's black!!"

And then you Cawacko, the three comments you made on that thread are all claiming that racism does exist and will play a part in any national election that has a black candidate? Can you point me to that part of your posts?

Because this appears to be implying that racism is not "holding him back":

If it's racism holding Obama back how do you account for the fact that polling shows Obama with less than half of the black vote? Are blacks self hating or racist against themselves?

But maybe I am reading it wrong, I am well known for my inability to comprehend basic reading and writing....wait, is it me who is well known for that? Well, whatever. lol

I knew you liked me because now you are taking on my traits. I asked CK why Obama is garnering less than 50% of the black vote in the polls. How is that denying racism exists? People in the press are asking the same question.
 
I knew you liked me because now you are taking on my traits. I asked CK why Obama is garnering less than 50% of the black vote in the polls. How is that denying racism exists? People in the press are asking the same question.

But you prefaced that with "if it's racism holding him back" which strongly implies that you don't think racism is playing a role.
 
But you prefaced that with "if it's racism holding him back" which strongly implies that you don't think racism is playing a role.

No, in asking the question I'm just accepting CK's premise without giving an opinion on it one way or the other.
 
nice cut and past from a fellow turbo lib Duhla, next time try a serious publication to cut and paste from.
 
this is a great article, thanks.

"Part of the problem is that most white people, save the best educated -- and this is borne out by studies as well; it is not simply class snobbery -- will not accept the fact that racism continues to stymie black progress. They blame all of black America's problems on the breakdown of the black family; as a cause, rather than a symptom."

See, this really caught my eye. Much of america is in denial. I can't tell you how many times a con or libertarian poster says we shouldn't have affirmative action, or federal civil rights laws (it's not part of the consitutional enumerated powers!!!), and that we should simply all strive to get along and be color blind. As if soothing messages from ron paul about colorblindness is an actual solution to the near term problem.

Wrong. Racial inequality and economic stratification is here to stay, at least for the forseeable future. Whatever modest tools we have to address that inequality is well justified, assuming they are applied in a fair and judicious manner.


Side note: the comments on economic stratification caught my eye too. And I suspect that its not only working class and poor blacks who are faring poorer in the post reagan, "supply sided" economics era, but also working class and poor whites. This is the fact-based assertion I gave that caused superfreak to have a meltdown about, and again it turns out that I was right! :cof1:
 
I always used to say that the rich getting richer doesn't hurt if the poor aren't getting poorer.

I have to face the facts, though. The poor ARE getting poorer, and there's one bastard to blame, senile Reagan.
As much as I despise Reagan and all who idolize him, I can't blame the entire wealth gap on the McPresident. In some ways, as appalling as he was, he was more symptomatic than causal.

Not to let him off the hook entirely, you understand. It's just that he couldn't have ripped the heart of this nation to shreds as effectively as he did without the tacit complicity of the white middle class.
 
Of course racism is still alive in America. I have some theories as to why, but that doesn't change the fact that it does exist.

Which, of course, is why Barack Obama has no chance in hell of winning an election. (Also, classism will keep him out)
 
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