Rage on the Right
- Thread starter apple0154
- Start date
Jesus Christ, you are dense.
To date you can not point to any violent language from We the People. The SPLC bases their conclusion on guilt by association and some shared ideas, language and/or symbols with other groups. I could not find any other info they gave for why this group should be considered a hate group.
The same sort of arguments can be made to connect the SPCA to PETA and or ALF. I am sure there have been some shared members/donors. All often use images of suffering animals to make their points. These same things can be said of environmental groups.
I am not saying those sort of weak connections are a basis for criticizing the SPCA. You are. Of course, I do not believe the SPCA is the same as PETA or ALF just as I do not think every gun rights group is the same.
Also, I am not really criticizing PETA either, but they are certainly different than the SPCA and ALF for that matter.
The article you cite above, is nothing but guilt by association. I have been at events with G. Edward Griffin. I don't share all of his views. I have been at peace rallies where the Uhuru's and Sami Al-Arian spoke. I don't share their views either. I have probably rubbed elbows with countless nuts over the years. That's part of politics.
apple0154
MEOW
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
You're more demented than I thought.
See what you happens, when you finally try to think.
You just don't do it enough, to be very good at it.
apple0154
MEOW
See what you happens, when you finally try to think.
You just don't do it enough, to be very good at it.
Perhaps you have a point. I know I definitely don't think about you much.
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
I love it when jokers like you crow your "intelligence" when the chronology of the posts display your folly with ease. You made an absurd comparison of the SPCA to PETA to ALF, not me. I proved that wrong...it has no place in the discussion, and you just threw it in as some sort of convoluted way to prove your defense of We the People and your condemnation of the SPLC.
Bottom line: the SPLC painstakingly shows how WE The People's founder Schulz courts known and convicted racist radicals to build his coalition and membership. Schulz isn't just "associating"...he's recruiting and aligning himself and his organization with these people. Playing the semantics game of not directly making violent threats won't help you...because any cop worth his salt will tell you that the smart criminals carefully choose their words before and after they lawyer up. THAT is why a prosecutor presents EVIDENCE, like the following:
The ranks of We the People have burgeoned since the November congress, and they now include dozens of prominent radical-right figures. Among them are Orly Taitz, the California dentist on a personal jihad to prove that Obama is not a citizen; Cory Burnell, a former leader of the white supremacist League of the South and later founder of Christian Exodus, which seeks a theocratic takeover of the state of South Carolina; John Hassey, former leader of the Central Alabama Militia; Walter Burien, co-founder in the 1990s of the Arizona Sons and Daughters of Liberty militia; and Jo Ann Dingley, once a contact for the Santa Rosa County Militia and a delegate to the Third Continental Congress, a Patriot formation.
With this swelling of the WTP rolls have come people with reported criminal histories. (Each of the people named below did not respond to E-mails seeking comment; details of their histories come from press reports). Among them:
Wayne Gunwall, who in the 1990s traveled around the country helping groups set up common-law courts. He was sentenced to 15 months in prison in 1997 for conspiring to impede and harass Internal Revenue Service agents.
Arthur Hollowell, a "sovereign citizen" who in 1982 was convicted of forgery charges and then was a fugitive for years. He was eventually sentenced to a year in federal prison in 1997 after pleading guilty to running a scam, called the Northwest Community Exchange, to hide millions of dollars from the Internal Revenue Service. In the 1990s, Hollowell was tied to the Citizens Bar Association, which urged tax resistance and was reportedly anti-Semitic.
Robert B. Beale, convicted of tax evasion in 2008 after two years on the run.
And David Eugene Landess, who accepted a plea bargain in 2009 on felony charges of attempting to evade taxes over several years.
..... In August, William Kostric, identified as a member of WTP's Arizona chapter, showed up at a health care reform meeting hosted in New Hampshire by President Obama. Kostric was wearing a gun strapped to his thigh and carrying a sign reading, "IT IS TIME TO WATER THE TREE OF LIBERTY" (a reference to Thomas Jefferson's statement that the "tree of liberty" needs occasional refreshing with "the blood of patriots and tyrants"). According to press reports, Kostric, who did not respond to requests for comment, had a MySpace page filled with paeans to militia groups and Randy Weaver, a white supremacist hero of many militiamen.
That same month, Chris Broughton, also listed as a member of WTP's Arizona chapter, brought an assault rifle to an Obama town hall meeting in Phoenix, provoking something of a media storm. While there, he was interviewed by Ernest Hancock, the militia sympathizer who also attended the Jekyll Island summit. A day earlier, Broughton had attended a fiery sermon by Tempe pastor Steven Anderson, who reportedly prayed for "Obama to melt like a snail tonight" because he was a "socialist devil, murderer, infanticide." Anderson told reporters he regularly prayed for the president's death and that Broughton was part of his congregation.
Bottom line: the SPLC is on target, the reporting is valid. You can deny it, BS about it, lie about....but the evidence is there for all to see. To date, NO ONE HAS PROVEN THE REPORTING TO BE WRONG ON IT'S FACTS. Deal with it.
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Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Where did I "crow my intelligence?" You are the one apparently obsessed about how you are perceived and feel the need to beat your chest.
The comparison was made to illustrate the point of "guilt by association" is insufficient evidence for the splc/your claim. It certainly has a place in the discussion and you have not been able to show that it does not. All you have done is echo my point about the value of "guilt by association" evidence.
There is no proof that he has attempted to recruit those advocating violence. He has only associated with people, who you claim (have not proved) advocate violence through the same sort of "guilt by association" and taking their words out of context.
Most of these people are only accused/guilty of opposing excessive taxation and supporting the rkba. If that makes them a hate group then so were our founders.
You have a couple guys in there that have some tie to a legitimate hate group or have behaved in a way that is threatening.
Again, there are shared memberships in the animal rights groups mentioned and among moderate and radical environmentalist groups. But you don't use those to slander and smear all members of those groups as advocates of hate or violence. Certainly, some of them are. But, this is about "hate groups."
All you have is guilt by association. You have not shown where We the People, as an organization, advocates violence. Neither you nor the SPLC have even bothered to try.
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Is it the problem of all the leftists who attended the peace rally or leftists in general who opposed the war? Are all of them members of a hate group or supporters of terrorism due to this tenuous connection with al-Arian?
Griffin buys in to and spreads conspiracy theories, but I don't know that he has actually advocated or participated in any violence. I am not sure why he was even mentioned.
There is just more repetition of the guilt by association argument.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Where did I "crow my intelligence?" You are the one apparently obsessed about how you are perceived and feel the need to beat your chest.
Sorry chuckles, YOU opened with a line lamenting about how "dense" I am....that statement assumes that YOU are not "dense"...as I proved, your self aggrandizing is a bit exaggerated.
The comparison was made to illustrate the point of "guilt by association" is insufficient evidence for the splc/your claim. It certainly has a place in the discussion and you have not been able to show that it does not. All you have done is echo my point about the value of "guilt by association" evidence.
There is a BIG difference between "associating" with someone and recruiting them, forming alliances with them, accepting their applications. As the information I referenced shows, Schulz is doing a hell of a lot more than just showing up at the same meetings with these jokers.
There is no proof that he has attempted to recruit those advocating violence. He has only associated with people, who you claim (have not proved) advocate violence through the same sort of "guilt by association" and taking their words out of context.
Now you're just being stubborn to the point of insipidness...because these just didn't wander in off the street, and Schultz's accepting their applications for membership DESPITE their history and/or criminal records speaks VOLUMES of his mindset and agenda. That these individuals have gone on to make speeches that advocate violent protests and/or to agitate discussions to a level of paranoia, fear and hate...and Schultz has NOT publically disowned and removed these people speaks volumes. Your "well, he hasn't done anything yet" does NOT change the evidence or the point of the SPLC articles.
Most of these people are only accused/guilty of opposing excessive taxation and supporting the rkba. If that makes them a hate group then so were our founders.
Again, your stubborn denial and myopic attitude won't change the evidence or the FACTS: people who either advocate or publically praise hate speeches, people bringing guns to public forums, convicted scam artists, tax evasionist, white supremacists, birthers, radical separatists....these are the people that Schultz signs up, seeks out, ....and if Schultz and his organization are unaware of whom they are in league with, then they're fucking incompetent and should NOT be running anything.
You have a couple guys in there that have some tie to a legitimate hate group or have behaved in a way that is threatening.
First you denied even this, now you are using conjecture to say it's just these folks. Remember, the article is just giving samples of what is out there and what the WTP is hooking up with, as these "couple of guys" are tied to larger organizations, and are doing their own recruiting/legwork.
Again, there are shared memberships in the animal rights groups mentioned and among moderate and radical environmentalist groups. But you don't use those to slander and smear all members of those groups as advocates of hate or violence. Certainly, some of them are. But, this is about "hate groups."
All you have is guilt by association. You have not shown where We the People, as an organization, advocates violence. Neither you nor the SPLC have even bothered to try.
Again, you are in denial of what the example YOU gave, the WTP is doing. Again, the SPLC DID NOT STATE THAT ALL MILITIAS ARE EVIL. They are specifically pointing out the rise in groups, who is involved and whom they are subsequently affiliated with and what they are doing/saying.
Again, your personal involvment in groups is NOT a guide to what Schultz is doing....you cannot fault the evidence, you just try to distort it. You failed.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
so the same people who say it is wrong to criticize a presidential candidate for being a member of Rev Wright's church now say we can condemn the Tea Party because a member attends someone's church?.........
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
No, the SPLC did not profile Rev. Wright and his congregation as a militia...neither has the FBI, last time I checked.
Rev. Wright stated that America would be damned by God for repeating the imperialistic policies of those ancient empires that got smited! Neocons, desperate to thwart Obama's Presidential run, edited the sermon, and ran a slander campaign. Just to let you know, they failed.
Also, Rev. Wright NEVER strapped on a gun/rifle to attend a public forum meeting, or attend summits chocked full of criminals and extremist, or prayed for the Shrub to die or slander him, as the jokers portrayed in the article I linked.
So your analogy fails on both levels.
But in case you still don't understand, let me simplify......if the Teabaggers, WTP or any other "party" or "militia" are NOT ousting or denouncing the little cretins previously referred to, that speaks volumes of their mindset. The information in the SPLC report is solid....Tough donuts if FACTS are uncomfortable for you.
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PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
we're talking about the Tea Party....nobody has listed them as militia either.....the analogy that has failed, ever since page one, is Tea Party and militia.....
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Sometimes I forget that you're not acting and you really are this fucking stupid.Okay, let's take it from the top: You and several others are all quick to denounce the SPLC's report on the rise of "militias" since Obama's inaugeration, and their connections/shared opinions and viewpoints, etc. that point toward a dangerous paranoid extremism....as well as deny that such views are being shared and condoned at teabagger meetings. When challenged, String states that the WTP is not an extremist organization and that the SPLC has falsely categorized ALL militas as potentially dangerous groups bent on anarchy. I provided the link to a more detailed review of the WTP, which shows that it's leader Schultz has actively recruited/formed alliances with/accepted membership of jokers like white supremacists, convicted tax fraud felons, birthers, radical seperatists...some who attend tea bag events for the express purpose of agitating others to share their views (and as it has been demonstrated in many video and news coverage, their message has been tolerated and in some instances supported)...and has YET to publically denounce and/or remove such from his group. Faced with the facts, YOU chime in with some erroneous comparison of the situation to the Rev. Wright fracas during Obama's campaign in order to discredit the SPLC and those who agree with it's findings. When I logically demonstrated how absurd that ploy of yours was, you now try to revise the exchange....once again failing to realize that YOU cannot erase the chronology of the post that prove you dead wrong.
The SPLC article, the article by the retired FBI agent, and the article on the We The People are solid and irrefutable, as you and those of your mindset are finding out.
Next time you come to the plate, bunky....bring a bat!
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
the SPLC report has nothing to do with the Tea Party.....militias have nothing to do with the Tea Party.....why are you even posting anything about the SPLC report.....it has nothing to do with this thread.........
It really doesn't matter if those articles are "solid and irrefutable" because those articles aren't talking about the Tea Party........
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
I didn't say they did, you fool! READ CAREFULLY what I wrote. NOTE the separation between what the SPLC article stated, what YOU and your cohorts stated, what the article on the "We The People" group stated.God damn, you can't LIE about what I write when the post is there for all to see. Haven't you learned that yet?