Registration WILL lead to CONFISCATION. Don't trust the takers.

Id say 99% of Americans belive that the rights to bear some "arms" should be limited. The Supreme Court has interperted the Constitution to allow the States the Rights to do so, in some limited circumstances. Personally I belive in many "States Rights" and do so in this case.

If we treated the Constitution as an absolute document we would have had to Amend it much more often, or cease to exist as a nation.

If the Government could not limit the right to own Nuclear Arms, the Second Amendment would have been repealed long ago.
 
No, I quoted it as why they have a right, I then pointed to the "need" (when seconds count the cops are minutes away) and then underlined that although we have weapons, we have far less violent crime than the society the poster grew up in. That you only read a portion, then pretend that the rest of the post doesn't exist doesn't change that it was there.

Imagine living in a place, like me, where wild animals actually threaten pets, children and livestock... tell me how I don't "need" to have a gun again. Tell me how I shouldn't carry it and have to run home to get it if we are threatened by that wildlife... tell me how I should call the cops and wait sometimes hours before the cops will show up and that I shouldn't have access to a tool that can protect me because some nutjob took advantage of legislated unprotected children (they even announce it with signs).

So are you saying that if I did not "need" arms, I would not have a right to them? I dont think so.

I never said you dont need a gun. Im sure you do.
 
I think you're overstating it quite a bit. In the Heller opinion Scalia suggested that military-style weapons might be lawfully banned:




http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZO.html

My take away from that is that they would need to be militarily useful as per "It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks." That would certainly indicate that military weapons are indeed protected.
 
Originally Posted by Lowaicue

Why would a sane individual, living in a civilised and therefore safe society feel the need to carry a tool with which to kill his fellow citizens?
a) America is not civilised?
b) America is not safe?
c) the individual in question is paranoid.

e) The individual in question believes in the constitution and understands that when seconds count the police are minutes away. (All this from an individual who grew up in the most violent society in Europe, which has over five times the violent crime per 100,000 people than the society he is trying to put down.)
d) The individual in question should be banned from carrying anything but a stuffed toy.


Damocles, note the word "AND", you cited as one of the reasons for needing to carry a gun a belife in the Constitution.

That is not a reason to need to exersize the right. Its also not necessarly a reason to have a right, and not having a reason to have a right is not a reason to take any rights away.
 
Except there isn't 200 years of USSC legal precedent on the 2A. The first USSC case to deal with it came about in 1937, which is where (among other cases) I draw my precedents from.

There really is minimal USSC precedent on the 2A. They've carefully tried to avoid this particular contentious issue.
 
You are picking and choosing, when the reality is this:

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment , nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.26

We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.” See 4 Blackstone 148–149 (1769); 3 B. Wilson, Works of the Honourable James Wilson 79 (1804); J. Dunlap, The New-York Justice 8 (1815); C. Humphreys, A Compendium of the Common Law in Force in Kentucky 482 (1822); 1 W. Russell, A Treatise on Crimes and Indictable Misdemeanors 271–272 (1831); H. Stephen, Summary of the Criminal Law 48 (1840); E. Lewis, An Abridgment of the Criminal Law of the United States 64 (1847); F. Wharton, A Treatise on the Criminal Law of the United States 726 (1852). See also State v. Langford, 10 N. C. 381, 383–384 (1824); O’Neill v. State, 16Ala. 65, 67 (1849); English v. State, 35Tex. 473, 476 (1871); State v. Lanier, 71 N. C. 288, 289 (1874).

It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment ’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.
 
My take away from that is that they would need to be militarily useful as per "It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks." That would certainly indicate that military weapons are indeed protected.


You're ignoring the context of that quote and basically turning it on its ear. Scalia raised those objections to the limitations on the 2nd Amendment right and then rejected them by saying: "But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right."

Basically, the prefatory clause limits the 2nd Amendment right to arms in common use at the time. The fact that modern developments would limit the usefulness of weapons in common use at the time for present day miulitary service cannot change the meaning of the 2nd Amendment.
 
You're ignoring the context of that quote and basically turning it on its ear. Scalia raised those objections to the limitations on the 2nd Amendment right and then rejected them by saying: "But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right."

Basically, the prefatory clause limits the 2nd Amendment right to arms in common use at the time. The fact that modern developments would limit the usefulness of weapons in common use at the time for present day miulitary service cannot change the meaning of the 2nd Amendment.

Common use would still include weapons of military utility. The AR-15 and 30rnd mags have been the hottest selling item for years now and are owned by MILLIONS. That does make them protected, STILL. And if they are protected, all others that function similarly or in similar capacity are also protected.
 
Common use would still include weapons of military utility. The AR-15 and 30rnd mags have been the hottest selling item for years now and are owned by MILLIONS. That does make them protected, STILL. And if they are protected, all others that function similarly or in similar capacity are also protected.

It isn't common use today, but common use at the time of the enactment of the 2nd Amendment, that matters. Well, at least according to Scalia. Here's the quote again without citations this time.

We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time.” We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.”

It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.
 
I think you're overstating it quite a bit. In the Heller opinion Scalia suggested that military-style weapons might be lawfully banned

I think you're misreading the decision.

It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment ’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.
 
Mostly that Constitutional rights are not necessarly absolute.
try to imagine the framers of the constitution debating that their newly founded central government has the power to limit the rights and freedoms of 'we the people', after successfully divorcing themselves from an oppressive and overbearing central government and their standing army. does that sound plausible?
 
It isn't common use today, but common use at the time of the enactment of the 2nd Amendment, that matters. Well, at least according to Scalia. Here's the quote again without citations this time.
you are taking his statement totally out of context, especially considering his other opinions about the advancement of first amendment rights and new technology. He is talking about the weapons of today, not the time of the writing of the constitution.
 
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