Religion

AnyOldIron

AnyOldIron

Atheist Missionary
Ok, I may be around for a while, at least until this becomes too addictive again.

So....

Any takers on the big topic?
 
This is the big topic? I am a religious man. Is that a problem?
 
I don't have a problem with you having religious belief, Winterborn. My question is, would you like to debate on the subject of religion?
 
AnyOldIron said:
I don't have a problem with you having religious belief, Winterborn. My question is, would you like to debate on the subject of religion?
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What exactly is the debate? I believe what I believe. I don't force it on anyone and don't let anyone else force their beliefs on me.
 
There's no need to be defensive, Winterborn. I am not here to mock you or force my views on you. How could I? They couldn't force Sir Thomas More to change his views with a threat of burning at the stake. I don't believe it is possible to force anybody to change their views. You have one view, I have an opposing view. I just want to debate.

Any starting line.... "What is god?"

I will leave it up to you. It is late over here and I need my sleep but will check in on the board another day.
 
AnyOldIron said:
There's no need to be defensive, Winterborn. I am not here to mock you or force my views on you. How could I? They couldn't force Sir Thomas More to change his views with a threat of burning at the stake. I don't believe it is possible to force anybody to change their views. You have one view, I have an opposing view. I just want to debate.

Any starting line.... "What is god?"

I will leave it up to you. It is late over here and I need my sleep but will check in on the board another day.
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I am not defensive at all. You opened the thread. I was just trying to define the parameters of the "big topic".
 
WB is right...in order to make sense of the topic...you need some parameters...the topic "relgion" alone is simply to big for one thread, unless you want a rambling 5000 post thread that doesn't make much sense
 
AnyOldIron said:
There's no need to be defensive, Winterborn. I am not here to mock you or force my views on you. How could I? They couldn't force Sir Thomas More to change his views with a threat of burning at the stake. I don't believe it is possible to force anybody to change their views. You have one view, I have an opposing view. I just want to debate.

Any starting line.... "What is god?"

I will leave it up to you. It is late over here and I need my sleep but will check in on the board another day.
Click to expand...

Sir Thomas had the threat of fire whilst Master Henry has the reality.

:burn:
 
AnyOldIron said:
I don't have a problem with you having religious belief, Winterborn. My question is, would you like to debate on the subject of religion?
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You want to debate on the subject of MY religious beliefs, Christian religious beliefs, or YOUR religious beliefs? Because, whether you want to admit it or not, all three exist and have legitimacy as a religious belief. You may not think of your views as being 'religious' but indeed, they are. Religion is a set of cultural beliefs and worldview, dependent upon faith. You have that, and so do I... so do most humans. So what aspect do you wish to argue here?
 
Yurt said:
liberalism is not spelled God
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Yurt, I know you think you are fantastic, but please try to be sensible. I suggest you set yourself a target and take baby steps. You'll get there. Just needs a bit of patience.
 
Lowaicue said:
Never heard of 'god's will'?
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Yes I have heard of God's will. But it has never alleviated my responsibility for my own actions.

It is often used as an explanation for things we cannot explain. It is never, in my opinion, rightfully used to remove personal responsibility from the picture.
 
AnyOldIron said:
"What is god?"
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Something (or somethings) inconceivable to the human mind. Well properly anyways. Our own misguided attempts to put god into human terms are complete failures. It's like an ant trying to describe mankind and all our technological wonders to other ants. We don't have the capacity to understand god(s). Thus we attach human traits to them, so as to make not only us more enviable, but them more knowable and conceivable.
 
WinterBorn said:
Yes I have heard of God's will. But it has never alleviated my responsibility for my own actions.

It is often used as an explanation for things we cannot explain. It is never, in my opinion, rightfully used to remove personal responsibility from the picture.
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It is always used as such. The entire content of the bible is designed to fill the huge but slowly reducing gaps in mans knowledge, to give guidelines as to how he should live and to be the tool by which various bodies exercise power and manipulation over the masses.
Religion has always done this - always. All the man made gods ever fashioned in man's mind served to give reason for his life and death. The responsibility, of which you are justly proud, for your own actions exists within parameters set by men with god as an excuse.
I see no possibility of there being an intelligent debate for very few people are so backward to really believe such mumbo jumbo.
For goodness sake read Richard Dawkins and all the others and then open your eyes so they shed light into your closed mind.
 
Lowaicue said:
It is always used as such. The entire content of the bible is designed to fill the huge but slowly reducing gaps in mans knowledge, to give guidelines as to how he should live and to be the tool by which various bodies exercise power and manipulation over the masses.
Religion has always done this - always. All the man made gods ever fashioned in man's mind served to give reason for his life and death. The responsibility, of which you are justly proud, for your own actions exists within parameters set by men with god as an excuse.
I see no possibility of there being an intelligent debate for very few people are so backward to really believe such mumbo jumbo.
For goodness sake read Richard Dawkins and all the others and then open your eyes so they shed light into your closed mind.
Click to expand...

What absolute nonsense. Do you have ANY evidence to back your belief that MAN created GOD? Nope! Nadda!
You remain closed-minded to the possibility, it's not the other way around. We see in the very nature of evolution and the evolutionary process, a miracle so profound it could have only been by design. Science, the ability to comprehend the universe around you, having the ability to achieve things no other living creature can achieve or ever will achieve, those are miraculous things to emerge from a pile of goo billions of years ago, through happenstance. You can't even explain the who/what/why/how for the purported Big Bang! Doesn't it strike you as odd that you can't explain rationally how the universe began?

We have discovered ancient civilizations of humans to somewhere around 80-90k years, and in every instance, we've found some evidence of some form of spiritual belief, rituals, worship. This seems to be an intractable attribute of humans. Now... If we were studying any other species and their behavior, we could certainly consider a fundamental attribute such as this, as important. Our next scientific endeavor should be to ask why... but you have already determined all of this, haven't you? Rather than exploring the possibilities of a spiritual existence we can't relate to, you have dismissed this as a fairy tale, make believe... but from the beginning of our time, we have been spiritual creatures, and it has served us well as a species. Now come you, Mr. Dawkins, and Bill Mahr, telling us that God is not real, it's all made up stuff... but you really don't have any proof of that, and 95% of us still believe in something greater than self. So, who are the idiots and who are the smart people? Who are the enlightened and who are still in the dark?

I surmise, if you can look at the fascination of our universe and life itself, and not see some sign of a designer, you are blind to the truth.
 
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