Religious Typology Quiz

[Dutch Uncle]

I feel compelled to remind you that there is no Christian analogue to Taqiyyah.

What compels you, Jank? Does the Spirit move you?

 

[Cypress]

I will ask you to be VERY CAREFUL. I do NOT want you to accuse me of antisemitism along with all the other things I'm being accused of on here.

Just try to keep it civil, please.



You are incorrect. While I will agree that at the time of the Exodus (an event for which there is no real historical evidence) Judaism as it is known today didn't exist. But the BOOKS themselves, Exodus being key, all are discussions of God's rules for His Chosen People. The Bible is rather explicit that according to the books the nation of Israel and their special relationship with Jahweh God was established LONG before the story of the Exodus.



I agree that the Bible is likely not what it purports to be, but that isn't the point.

It seems like you really hate the Hebrew bible, I apologize if that's not true. You have definitely gone out of your way to cherry pick the most objectional parts.

I don't like it when holly rollers cherry pick biblical quotes to condemn gays either.

The Torah contains rules for ritual, specifically for ritual purity, food preparation, animal sacrifice, and some general prohibitions against murder and adultery.

At the time of Torah, the Hebrew tribes weren't even technically monotheists. They recognized and accepted that other gods existed.

The meat and potatoes of what is recognizably a Jewish religion and Jewish social ethical framework only matured in the second temple period, and in the period before, during, and after the Babylonian exile. Basically the time of the prophets.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I will ask you to be VERY CAREFUL. I do NOT want you to accuse me of antisemitism along with all the other things I'm being accused of on here.

Just try to keep it civil, please…

It seems like you really hate the Hebrew bible, I apologize if that's not true. You have definitely gone out of your way to cherry pick the most objectional parts.

I don't like it when holly rollers cherry pick biblical quotes to condemn gays either….

Cherry-picking is a common tactic of extremists. It’s extreme because they are only see on side of the topic regardless if they are atheists or theists. IMO, it’s also dishonest.

Something else which has caught my eye all afternoon is the passive-aggressive nature of Jank’s responses when caught being dishonest, hateful or in error. While Passive-Aggressiveness can be an indicator of mental issues, it can also simply be an indication a person is weak or dishonest.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-...wers/passive-aggressive-behavior/faq-20057901

Although passive-aggressive behavior can be a feature of various mental health conditions, it isn't considered a distinct mental illness. However, passive-aggressive behavior can interfere with relationships and cause difficulties on the job. If you're struggling with passive-aggressive behavior — or you think a loved one is — consider consulting a therapist.

 

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What compels you, Jank? Does the Spirit move you?

I just like stating general truths from time to time.

 

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Cherry-picking is a common tactic of extremists. It’s extreme because they are only see on side of the topic regardless if they are atheists or theists. IMO, it’s also dishonest.

Something else which has caught my eye all afternoon is the passive-aggressive nature of Jank’s responses when caught being dishonest, hateful or in error. While Passive-Aggressiveness can be an indicator of mental issues, it can also simply be an indication a person is weak or dishonest.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-...wers/passive-aggressive-behavior/faq-20057901

I am beginning to understand that you, Doc, want a "fight". You are unhappy just discussing things, you want people to get worked up and angry. I will admit you are starting to get under my skin, which I know is the name of the game.

This isn't really my "thing". Perhaps you should take your game elsewhere? Or should I just bow out? I don't know how committed you are to continuing the game.

 

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It seems like you really hate the Hebrew bible, I apologize if that's not true. You have definitely gone out of your way to cherry pick the most objectional parts.

I don't hate the hebrews. I am not a fan of genocide. Even the ones commanded by God. No matter who does them. But the reason I raise these issues is NOT to demonize the Hebrews, but rather to make a point that religion has as many horrors to its name as "atheism". Perhaps much more.

I greatly dislike being accused of antisemitism or hatred of the Hebrews just because I quoted the Bible. You need to be very careful with how you speak going forward. I have been amply civil to you so far.

 

[Cypress]

Violent atheists have their own little circles.

I used to be on a forum called “Secular Cafe”. The primary participants were about a dozen ardent atheists who vehemently hated anyone who defended the rights of all and any beliefs. For some reason Christianity is the favorite target of violent atheists. Like Jank, they claimed to “disbelieve” and, also like Jank, asked me to prove those religions…which, again like Jank, is a silly request. Needless to say, it was all of them against me. LOL. I had fun but many blamed me for 1) the death of one member who was old, bitter and dying of some severe illness and 2) the eventual demise of the forum.

In short, I’ve heard all the arguments, all the “disbelieve” bullshit and everything the angry atheists have posted on this thread.

FWIW, I’ve heard all the Bible Thumper arguments too, but mostly ignore them. LOL

The hard core atheists and the fundamentalist holy rollers seem to be in it for the polemics. Religion is treated as a team sport.

I'm in it for the history and scholarship. I have run across exactly zero legitimate religious scholars and historians of antiquity who cherry pick a quote here or a quote there to make some polemic point about Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism. One can't really learn anything valuable from cherry picks.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I am beginning to understand that you, Doc, want a "fight". You are unhappy just discussing things, you want people to get worked up and angry. I will admit you are starting to get under my skin, which I know is the name of the game.

This isn't really my "thing". Perhaps you should take your game elsewhere? Or should I just bow out? I don't know how committed you are to continuing the game.

What’s to fight about, Jank? Why would you be getting “worked up and angry” over an Internet discussion on a topic that cannot be proved right or wrong? It’s all about beliefs which, like opinions and assholes, everyone has one. What kind of person gets angry over something that can’t be proved?

If I’m getting under your skin, Jank, then it’s because you are letting me be there. Blaming me for whatever is going on inside your head isn’t my problem. I admit, it makes me curious, but it’s still all on you.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I don't hate the hebrews. I am not a fan of genocide. Even the ones commanded by God. No matter who does them. But the reason I raise these issues is NOT to demonize the Hebrews, but rather to make a point that religion has as many horrors to its name as "atheism". Perhaps much more.

I greatly dislike being accused of antisemitism or hatred of the Hebrews just because I quoted the Bible. You need to be very careful with how you speak going forward. I have been amply civil to you so far.

There’s that passive-aggressiveness again. Genocide? By a power you don’t believe exists? WTF, Jank?

You were accused, rightfully IMO, of cherry-picking from the OT and misrepresenting the context. Anyone can make a mistake but when a person does it repeatedly, then I question their intelligence and/or veracity.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The hard core atheists and the fundamentalist holy rollers seem to be in it for the polemics. Religion is treated as a team sport.

I'm in it for the history and scholarship. I have run across exactly zero legitimate religious scholars and historians of antiquity who cherry pick a quote here or a quote there to make some polemic point about Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism. One can't really learn anything valuable from cherry picks.

LOL. Well put. Yes, in the case of atheistic and theistic extremists, the subject appears to be a team sports competition.

Agreed on the history. The history of mankind is often in the realm of religion because that’s where the scholars lived. Also agreed on seeing history in context.

 

[Cypress]

I don't hate the hebrews. I am not a fan of genocide. Even the ones commanded by God. No matter who does them. But the reason I raise these issues is NOT to demonize the Hebrews, but rather to make a point that religion has as many horrors to its name as "atheism". Perhaps much more.

I greatly dislike being accused of antisemitism or hatred of the Hebrews just because I quoted the Bible. You need to be very careful with how you speak going forward. I have been amply civil to you so far.

Since the Jewish religion as we know it has never committed genocide on anyone, they obviously didn't adopt your cherry picked quote as moral tenet of their religions tradition.

But it seems like you are fixated on this quote because it supposedly demeans their God.

There's a lot of quotes in the Hebrew Bible you could have picked and which Jewish people actually act upon, like social justice, charity for the poor, love for all your neighbors. But curiously you keep coming back to some cherry picked quote Jewish people don't even act upon.

 

[Cypress]

There’s that passive-aggressiveness again. Genocide? By a power you don’t believe exists? WTF, Jank?

You were accused, rightfully IMO, of cherry-picking from the OT and misrepresenting the context. Anyone can make a mistake but when a person does it repeatedly, then I question their intelligence and/or veracity.

My question is, why cherry pick one quote from the Hebrew bible about something that isn't even part of their moral framework, and ignore the hundreds of other quotes that actually are part of a moral framework Jews act upon?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Since the Jewish religion as we know it has never committed genocide on anyone, they obviously didn't adopt your cherry picked quote as moral tenet of their religions tradition.

But it seems like you are fixated on this quote because it supposedly demeans their God.

There's a lot of quotes in the Hebrew Bible you could have picked and which Jewish people actually act upon, like social justice, charity for the poor, love for all your neighbors. But curiously you keep coming back to some cherry picked quote Jewish people don't even act upon.

It’s part of the violent atheist pattern to only view quotes, often out of context, which reflect the worst on a book written by desert nomads about 4,000 years ago.

One of my favorite arguments by such people is when they look at a natural disaster like the Turkish earthquake or the 2004 Tsunami then use that as evidence the Abrahamic God doesn’t exist. Obviously they are completely ignoring the point about an afterlife. It’s a fine example of cherry-picking a belief system.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

My question is, why cherry pick one quote from the Hebrew bible about something that isn't even part of their moral framework, and ignore the hundreds of other quotes that actually are part of a moral framework Jews act upon?

IMO, it’s because they are trying to disprove what can’t be proved or disproved. It’s illogical and irrational.

 

[Cypress]

It’s part of the violent atheist pattern to only view quotes, often out of context, which reflect the worst on a book written by desert nomads about 4,000 years ago.

One of my favorite arguments by such people is when they look at a natural disaster like the Turkish earthquake or the 2004 Tsunami then use that as evidence the Abrahamic God doesn’t exist. Obviously they are completely ignoring the point about an afterlife. It’s a fine example of cherry-picking a belief system.

I don't think natural disasters prove anything about the presence or absence of a transcendent reality.

There is obviously a lot of preposterous stuff from a 21st century perspective written in the Hebrew Bible, the Dhammapada, the Baghavad Gita, the Qur'an. Especially if taken literally at face value.

I make no claims as to any divine Providence inspiring the innate ideas in the human mind that reason and intuition construct. I don't know what the provenance of innate ideas are. But I get the feeling that for some people, if you don't accept a strictly material reductionist framework of reality, it must mean you are proselytizing religion. And that eventually takes us down the road of cherry picked TaNaKh quotes.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I don't think natural disasters prove anything about the presence or absence of a transcendent reality.

There is obviously a lot of preposterous stuff from a 21st century perspective written in the Hebrew Bible, the Dhammapada, the Baghavad Gita, the Qur'an. Especially if taken literally at face value.

I make no claims as to any divine Providence inspiring the innate ideas in the human mind that reason and intuition construct. I don't know what the provenance of innate ideas are. But I get the feeling that for some people, if you don't accept a strictly material reductionist framework of reality, it must mean you are proselytizing religion. And that eventually takes us down the road of cherry picked TaNaKh quotes.

Agreed, mostly because of the eternal life aspect, yet that’s the argument used by atheists both on JPP and other forums.

Agreed about texts written thousands of years ago.

There is no evidence of magic or supernatural events; merely misunderstood events within the Natural Universe. If there’s a God then it’s a Watchmaker God…which make sense since any supernatural being existing outside of Space/Time would not be constrained by Space/Time.

 

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Since the Jewish religion as we know it has never committed genocide on anyone, they obviously didn't adopt your cherry picked quote as moral tenet of their religions tradition.

But it seems like you are fixated on this quote because it supposedly demeans their God.

Would you actually agree to listen to what I have to say before you go on making stuff up about my points? Or would you prefer to continue this way?

There's a lot of quotes in the Hebrew Bible you could have picked and which Jewish people actually act upon, like social justice, charity for the poor, love for all your neighbors. But curiously you keep coming back to some cherry picked quote Jewish people don't even act upon.

I thought you were able to understand my point. I guess I was mistaken.

 

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What’s to fight about, Jank? Why would you be getting “worked up and angry” over an Internet discussion on a topic that cannot be proved right or wrong? It’s all about beliefs which, like opinions and assholes, everyone has one. What kind of person gets angry over something that can’t be proved?

If I’m getting under your skin, Jank, then it’s because you are letting me be there. Blaming me for whatever is going on inside your head isn’t my problem. I admit, it makes me curious, but it’s still all on you.

I think you know what I'm talking about and it's really not my thing. Let's stick with the discussion, shall we? It isn't about me.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I think you know what I'm talking about and it's really not my thing. Let's stick with the discussion, shall we? It isn't about me.

No, but like Perry PhD, you are free to play coy.

It’s interesting to watch you dance around when you choose to make the conversation personal and when you choose to stay on topic.

 

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My question is, why cherry pick one quote from the Hebrew bible about something that isn't even part of their moral framework, and ignore the hundreds of other quotes that actually are part of a moral framework Jews act upon?

I will tell you why, if only so you'll have a reason to make up stuff about it.

I raised that specific quote because we were talking about religious morality vs atheist morality.. I merely pointed the fact that the primary holy book of Christianity (which by DEFINITION includes the Old Testament) features centrally on a God for whom "morality" doesn't seem to comport with the morality we all share. That at the core of the religion is a theological concept that along with the love of all people also occasionally allows for murder under special circumstances (ie command by God).

My point is that there is no ordained morality from a supernatural entity and I use as an example a case we in the West are more familiar with.


But here's the interesting point: you studiously avoided my mention of the Albigensian Crusade. Remember that quote "Caedite eos. ...."? Yeah that's from the Albigensian Crusade when the POPE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH sent people out to destroy a small sect in southern France in the 13th century. That quote was apocryphally from the Papal Legate and it basically says "Kill them all. Surely God will know his own".

My points were to show that Religion is not a bulwark against evil actions. That when people start rolling out the "evils" done supposedly by atheists for atheism are also done by religious people supposedly in service to their faith and their god.

Does that clarify it yet? You selectively ignored the whole of my posts so you could focus on something to make an accusation against me that is still VERY painful.