Ron Paul #1

[uscitizen]

goverment is limited, just not very much...

 

[Timshel]

Rest assured in the knowledge that as soon as the primaries are over, this neanderthal will crawl back into obscurity where he came from.

Where are you going?

 

[DigitalDave]

A mindlessly ridiculous comparison.

Dennis Kucinich hates babies too, its why he voted against SCHIP. Not only that, but he looks like an elf.

 

[blackascoal]

Where are you going?

Man, that's real funny ..

Unfortunately though, it doesn't change the fact that Paul is a fringe candidate who slid from under the rock he was hiding in to run for president.

Few will remember he was ever a candidate

 

[Epicurus]

Man, that's real funny ..

Unfortunately though, it doesn't change the fact that Paul is a fringe candidate who slid from under the rock he was hiding in to run for president.

Few will remember he was ever a candidate

We will remember that for a brief time, he was a major annoyance to you, 1by, and Sean Hannity... and for that we will rest a little easier at night.

 

[blackascoal]

We will remember that for a brief time, he was a major annoyance to you, 1by, and Sean Hannity... and for that we will rest a little easier at night.

I'm glad to help provide you with that peace my brother .. But I doubt that he's anymore an annoyance to 1by than he is to me.

He's entertainment, and he provides a curious look into a segment of the American psyche'.

When the primaries are over, his 15 minutes will be up .. but the delusion of his followers will still be present.

 

[Epicurus]

Black. I don't think that Ron Paul could ever be elected President. Please understand that. But I would be nothing if not a poor American if I sat idly by and did nothing to help the campaign of a man I agree with more than any other who has ever run for the office of President under a major party banner.

I don't know who your long shot candidate is, but if I did I wouldn't mock them. I would admire your dedication to your principles.

 

[Damocles]

Black. I don't think that Ron Paul could ever be elected President. Please understand that. But I would be nothing if not a poor American if I sat idly by and did nothing to help the campaign of a man I agree with more than any other who has ever run for the office of President under a major party banner.

I don't know who your long shot candidate is, but if I did I wouldn't mock them. I would admire your dedication to your principles.

His is Kucinich, who also voted against the SCHIP thing...

 

[Timshel]

Black. I don't think that Ron Paul could ever be elected President. Please understand that.

Don't bother lying, bac knows that we are all convinced Paul will win. And he will!

 

[Lao Tse]

I'm glad to help provide you with that peace my brother .. But I doubt that he's anymore an annoyance to 1by than he is to me.

He's entertainment, and he provides a curious look into a segment of the American psyche'.

When the primaries are over, his 15 minutes will be up .. but the delusion of his followers will still be present.

Yet you fear him so you post lie after lie about him.

 

[blackascoal]

Black. I don't think that Ron Paul could ever be elected President. Please understand that. But I would be nothing if not a poor American if I sat idly by and did nothing to help the campaign of a man I agree with more than any other who has ever run for the office of President under a major party banner.

I don't know who your long shot candidate is, but if I did I wouldn't mock them. I would admire your dedication to your principles.

I don't disagree with with what you've said and I respect your political involvement .. however, my problem with Paul isn't that he's a long shot candidate or that I simply disagree with his policies .. he smells like a racist, coddles hate groups, stands against legislation designed to help end 400 years of terrorism, and proposes policies that would set this nation back 100 years.

Without getting into the "he didn't say that" argument, there is no question that he allowed some of the most racist crap I have ever read under the name of a politician to remain in his name and wouldn't refute it for more than 5 years and until it became a political problem. There is no question that he voted against honoring the Civil Rights Act and Rosa Parks. There is no question that he voted against and and every measure designed to make the playing field even, not give an advantage to anyone, but just make the playing field even. The excuse that "he's just being true to his principles" is hardly sane rationale for his insane legislative failure. I'm sure every racist that has ever existed was being true to their principles, but that doesn't make those principles any less insane.

Surely you cannot expect any African-American to support such a man or to do anything other than mock him. It is beyond me how any person of conscience could support him and it's quite telling that almost all of his support comes from white males.

There are some ideas fom Paul that I agree with, most specifically his antiwar stance and his position on the war on drugs .. but taken as a whole, this man should never come near the White House.

My problem with his followers is the constant state of denial in which they seem to exist, where scientific polls are no longer valid, only internet polls, and the messiah-like godliness they assign to him that ignores every wrong and misstep he's ever done.

I attended a birthday party of a Paul supporter this weekend .. who I met when he and his wife responded angrily to my op/ed article about Paul. Once we got past defending our positions about him, we discovered that we had much in common politically and we've become friends. Everyone at the party was a Paul supporter and the only birthday present he wanted was for everyone to donate to Paul's campaign. When it came time to donate, we watched as everyone, except me and my wife, donated to Paul and watched their name appear on his website when they donated. We had some robust, fierce, but respectful discussions during the night and I saw everyone of them as politically dedicated and aware people which can only be admired.

I've even done a presentation on electronic voting to a Paul Meetup group at the invitation of my new friends. Most of the Paul supporters I've met and spoken to directly are, like you, serious Americans looking to alter the disastrous course this nation is on.

Perhaps you're right and I've allowed my distaste for the candidate to go a bit overboard, but I do recognize why so many are desperately searching for someone, anyone who does not represent the status quo. But in my opinion, Ron Paul is a leap from the frying pan into the fire. Even in desperation, we must still look under the hood before we buy.

 

[Beefy]

I don't disagree with with what you've said and I respect your political involvement .. however, my problem with Paul isn't that he's a long shot candidate or that I simply disagree with his policies .. he smells like a racist, coddles hate groups, stands against legislation designed to help end 400 years of terrorism, and proposes policies that would set this nation back 100 years.

Your problem with Paul actually is that he is a Constitutionalist, and you find the Constitution abhorrent. You've said it yourself, that the constitution is a document that is inherently racist because it was written by "white land owners" 200+ years go. The Constitution in your mind is inherently flawed, and an ugly piece, thus you would rather use it as a mere " framework " for government. The problem is, when you use it this way, you discard it completely, and you open up the federal government to EXACTLY the kind of corruption that we see today. And WHY do we see it? Why? Because there is no longer any respect for a Constitution, and rules of government have become arbitrary at the behest of people like you. And an arbitrary government will crush your rights and mine.

Without getting into the "he didn't say that" argument, there is no question that he allowed some of the most racist crap I have ever read under the name of a politician to remain in his name and wouldn't refute it for more than 5 years and until it became a political problem. There is no question that he voted against honoring the Civil Rights Act and Rosa Parks. There is no question that he voted against and and every measure designed to make the playing field even, not give an advantage to anyone, but just make the playing field even. The excuse that "he's just being true to his principles" is hardly sane rationale for his insane legislative failure. I'm sure every racist that has ever existed was being true to their principles, but that doesn't make those principles any less insane.

Your contention that Ron Paul is some sort of flagrant racist is fine and dandy. You can opine about that all you wish, but its nothing more than an opinion. And I'll tell you this much, I'll take a maverick legislator over some sort of sycophant everythime. Now, I'll wait patiently here untill these words get twisted into some sort of Hitleresque rant, but it doesn't change the fact that the effort to paint Ron Paul as a racist is built on poiltical ground.

Surely you cannot expect any African-American to support such a man or to do anything other than mock him. It is beyond me how any person of conscience could support him and it's quite telling that almost all of his support comes from white males.

I'm a person of conscience. I support him. Its quite telling to me that you still wish to act as judge, jury and excecutioner as to where his support comes from. You've decided, arbitrarily that where support comes from makes the candidate, entirely. You, Blackascoal, the great arbitor of justice and all that is good, have decided that individuals no longer matter, and that groups of supporters can all be lumped into one. I'm interested in the heat I'll get for that one as well.

There are some ideas fom Paul that I agree with, most specifically his antiwar stance and his position on the war on drugs .. but taken as a whole, this man should never come near the White House.

My problem with his followers is the constant state of denial in which they seem to exist, where scientific polls are no longer valid, only internet polls, and the messiah-like godliness they assign to him that ignores every wrong and misstep he's ever done.

I have no illusions as to his viability as a candidate. He doesn't have a chance, and I find it curious as to how the left has reacted so violently to the one Republican candidate who agrees with them most. Ron Paul is goingt to do something that very few major party candidates have ever done, he's going to cross party lines. He's giving the idiot die hard jackass fucknut Republican fence sitters a way to see this war for what it is, without losing face. Politics, but not politics as usual. To me, that's very important.

I attended a birthday party of a Paul supporter this weekend .. who I met when he and his wife responded angrily to my op/ed article about Paul. Once we got past defending our positions about him, we discovered that we had much in common politically and we've become friends. Everyone at the party was a Paul supporter and the only birthday present he wanted was for everyone to donate to Paul's campaign. When it came time to donate, we watched as everyone, except me and my wife, donated to Paul and watched their name appear on his website when they donated. We had some robust, fierce, but respectful discussions during the night and I saw everyone of them as politically dedicated and aware people which can only be admired.

I've even done a presentation on electronic voting to a Paul Meetup group at the invitation of my new friends. Most of the Paul supporters I've met and spoken to directly are, like you, serious Americans looking to alter the disastrous course this nation is on.

Perhaps you're right and I've allowed my distaste for the candidate to go a bit overboard, but I do recognize why so many are desperately searching for someone, anyone who does not represent the status quo. But in my opinion, Ron Paul is a leap from the frying pan into the fire. Even in desperation, we must still look under the hood before we buy.

I respect that. Truly i do.

 

[blackascoal]

Your problem with Paul actually is that he is a Constitutionalist, and you find the Constitution abhorrent. You've said it yourself, that the constitution is a document that is inherently racist because it was written by "white land owners" 200+ years go. The Constitution in your mind is inherently flawed, and an ugly piece, thus you would rather use it as a mere " framework " for government. The problem is, when you use it this way, you discard it completely, and you open up the federal government to EXACTLY the kind of corruption that we see today. And WHY do we see it? Why? Because there is no longer any respect for a Constitution, and rules of government have become arbitrary at the behest of people like you. And an arbitrary government will crush your rights and mine.

Given that I agree with the majority of your posts more often than not, I take no offense to your comments and accept them as your sincere thoughts .. that being said .. I do not find the Constitution abhorrent, but I most certainly do not believe that it offers every answer to a modern society. Jefferson and Madison didn't believe it answered every question of even their society, which is why they demanded a Bill of Rights before they would fully support it. I also most certainly believe it to be a flawed document that offered an excellent framework for a budding democracy, but even the original framers were smart enough to recognize that it would not be the end-all of governance and intentionally ommitted references to issues like slavery which they knew would not always exist.

Assigning holiness to a 200 year-old document is mindboggling. How one would see any document that called Africans not fully human as a perfect document doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Your contention that Ron Paul is some sort of flagrant racist is fine and dandy. You can opine about that all you wish, but its nothing more than an opinion. And I'll tell you this much, I'll take a maverick legislator over some sort of sycophant everythime. Now, I'll wait patiently here untill these words get twisted into some sort of Hitleresque rant, but it doesn't change the fact that the effort to paint Ron Paul as a racist is built on poiltical ground.

I have no desire to twist your words and I fully accept my opinion as just that, an opinion. Nor do I have a problem with your choices, but they are your choices based on your opinions. My opinion of Paul as a racist coddler are based on his actions and record. When he first said he was going to run, I said he was a republican I could support .. but once I looked under the hood, what I found was ugly beyond belief.

You have the luxury of ignoring his racism, I do not.

I'm a person of conscience. I support him. Its quite telling to me that you still wish to act as judge, jury and excecutioner as to where his support comes from. You've decided, arbitrarily that where support comes from makes the candidate, entirely. You, Blackascoal, the great arbitor of justice and all that is good, have decided that individuals no longer matter, and that groups of supporters can all be lumped into one. I'm interested in the heat I'll get for that one as well.

Again, your opinion .. but it does not take genius, nor being the arbitrator of all that is good, which I most surely am , to determine where his support comes from.

I have no illusions as to his viability as a candidate. He doesn't have a chance, and I find it curious as to how the left has reacted so violently to the one Republican candidate who agrees with them most. Ron Paul is goingt to do something that very few major party candidates have ever done, he's going to cross party lines. He's giving the idiot die hard jackass fucknut Republican fence sitters a way to see this war for what it is, without losing face. Politics, but not politics as usual. To me, that's very important.

That may indeed be important to you, but asking republicans to take a look at themselves is not important to me. Good government is important to me and Ron Paul does not represent good government by any measure .. nor should anyone expect good government from someone who has such disdain of government. The realities on the ground have caused republicans to to see this war for what it is, not Ron Paul.

I respect that. Truly i do.

I respect your opinions as well my brother.