Ron Paul Joins The Race

remember now that the law allowing the surplus to be spent as regular general fund revenue was signed into law by Regan.

I like the interest bearing account idea, but not the 401K type of apporach.

Klaatu, yes he is fiscally conservative, But with the R behind his name will anyone believe him ?
err well enough to make a difference anyway, Ron has alweays had a following, but not too large.

also does his voting record under Bush reflect his conservatism ?
 
klaatu said:
Deficit Spending and Social Security

"Congress [must] stop spending. When Congress outspends federal revenues, it raids Social Security funds to cover the difference. Unless Congress makes real cuts in spending — and stops spending Social Security taxes on completely unrelated programs — millions of Americans simply will not receive even a fraction of the money they paid into Social Security..."

"Under my [plan], your Social Security contributions are set aside in an interest-bearing account and cannot be spent. In other words, your Social Security account would be treated as your account and not a slush fund for Congress."
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I was referring to the projected shortfalls.
 
The projected shortfalls will have to be made up out of general funds ie taxes and will hurt.
Otherwise the grey panthers will arise !
 
A combination of Interest bearing account, a slight increase in Taxes and a slight raise in age eligibility ...would probably do the trick.. but the key is to make each SS account personal and to lock it away from the greasy hands of Congress.
 
Another slight age eligbility increase ? Darn, perhaps I will live long enough, but then that is the point is it not ? More to die before drawing anything or to draw less. These variable contracts with America suck.

but I see this as the best soloution as well.
Dammit, why do I have to understand, it would be better to just be outraged like the talk radio puppets.
 
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klaatu said:
A combination of Interest bearing account, a slight increase in Taxes and a slight raise in age eligibility ...would probably do the trick.. but the key is to make each SS account personal and to lock it away from the greasy hands of Congress.
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I used to support the idea of individual SS accounts under personal control, but I share an office with a man who is a self-admitted country bumpkin. The problem that he points out with this approach is where a third party, be it Congress or any other unscrupulous bunch, has access to the money. Most people do not have financial education, let alone financial sense. These people, and their future retirement, would be threatened. (Granted the SS system, in their last mailing to me, already tells me that I can expect less than the current rate of benefits at some point in my retirement.)

The object here is to repair the system, not just make it less bad. If we can figure out a way to protect the least able (by generating a positive rate of return, not a negative rate of return) while allowing those who are capable of self-managing to do so, then that would be a system that we should consider. Simple rehashs and tweaks to the current mode of business will just push the ultimate collapse out further.

How do we protect those who 'think' they can self manage, but don't have a clue? For example, my wife's cousin can not understand why we're "foolishly" working our butts off to pay off the mortgage early and own our home free and clear. If we'd "just get an interest only mortgage" like hers, we could have a much nicer house. She can not fathom how we can live our lives without cable TV (for the one non-LCD, non-plasma, non-fancy non-bigscreen 19" TV set in the house), eschew Starbuck's coffee, use a spending plan (budget) every month, don't lease nicer cars, have a cleaning lady, and eat out every weekend. When people like these drive themselves into a ditch, do we just let them languish? To me, that's a very tempting proposition!
 
How do we protect those who 'think' they can self manage, but don't have a clue? For example, my wife's cousin can not understand why we're "foolishly" working our butts off to pay off the mortgage early and own our home free and clear. If we'd "just get an interest only mortgage" like hers, we could have a much nicer house. She can not fathom how we can live our lives without cable TV (for the one non-LCD, non-plasma, non-fancy non-bigscreen 19" TV set in the house), eschew Starbuck's coffee, use a spending plan (budget) every month, don't lease nicer cars, have a cleaning lady, and eat out every weekend. When people like these drive themselves into a ditch, do we just let them languish? To me, that's a very tempting proposition!

I feel you on this. It pisses me off that my ascetic lifestyle of frugal spending is probably going to be held against me later as I have to support those who chose a hedonistic lifestyle when it catches up with them.
 
IHateGovernment said:
How do we protect those who 'think' they can self manage, but don't have a clue? For example, my wife's cousin can not understand why we're "foolishly" working our butts off to pay off the mortgage early and own our home free and clear. If we'd "just get an interest only mortgage" like hers, we could have a much nicer house. She can not fathom how we can live our lives without cable TV (for the one non-LCD, non-plasma, non-fancy non-bigscreen 19" TV set in the house), eschew Starbuck's coffee, use a spending plan (budget) every month, don't lease nicer cars, have a cleaning lady, and eat out every weekend. When people like these drive themselves into a ditch, do we just let them languish? To me, that's a very tempting proposition!

I feel you on this. It pisses me off that my ascetic lifestyle of frugal spending is probably going to be held against me later as I have to support those who chose a hedonistic lifestyle when it catches up with them.
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We don't have to guarantee everyone whatever lifestyle they wish, no. OTOH, it's a given that many people simply don't have the skill set -- for whatever reasons -- to become truly financially secure on their own. By "many" here I mean tens of millions, not just a handful.

It is neither necessary nor humane to simply let people fail to the extent of misery and homelessness.
 
Its not a binary though. We can say there should be consequences for poor choices and not mean that people should starve in the streets. Now this may make me sound like a hardcore conservative but I think society would be served if people actually had to suffer a bit for their poor choices.

Start giving financial literacy classes in schools too.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Its not a binary though. We can say there should be consequences for poor choices and not mean that people should starve in the streets. Now this may make me sound like a hardcore conservative but I think society would be served if people actually had to suffer a bit for their poor choices.

Start giving financial literacy classes in schools too.
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You think they don't suffer now? See, that's the part I never get: why some seem to think we have to go out of our way to make things worse.

Social stigma and loss of status are all the goad most people need. Humiliation is the single most effective negative reinforcement you could ask for. That's what it's for, evolutionarily speaking.
 
I think the opposite is true Ornot. With the partitioning of our society we do not have cohesion and thus informal social controls have lost great efficacy. People are not ashamed or embarrassed about many things they do because people feel they have more privacy.

People are also more willing to tolerate bad behavior. This is why I make an effort to go out of my way to publically shame people for bad behavior since no one else does it anymore.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Its not a binary though. We can say there should be consequences for poor choices and not mean that people should starve in the streets. Now this may make me sound like a hardcore conservative but I think society would be served if people actually had to suffer a bit for their poor choices.

Start giving financial literacy classes in schools too.
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That's the hard part of freedom isn't it? The right to make your own choices, but that entails taking responsibility for the results. The toughest part for me is when kids suffer from the shitty decisions their parents make.

Financial literacy in school? Sponsored by Visa!
 
The toughest part for me is when kids suffer from the shitty decisions their parents make.

For that reason my stance on social welfare for children is greatly different then for adults.


Financial literacy in school? Sponsored by Visa!

Yes that is a real risk. I believe something should be done though as it seems many do not know how taxes, credit and mortgages work.
 
IHateGovernment said:
How do we protect those who 'think' they can self manage, but don't have a clue? For example, my wife's cousin can not understand why we're "foolishly" working our butts off to pay off the mortgage early and own our home free and clear. If we'd "just get an interest only mortgage" like hers, we could have a much nicer house. She can not fathom how we can live our lives without cable TV (for the one non-LCD, non-plasma, non-fancy non-bigscreen 19" TV set in the house), eschew Starbuck's coffee, use a spending plan (budget) every month, don't lease nicer cars, have a cleaning lady, and eat out every weekend. When people like these drive themselves into a ditch, do we just let them languish? To me, that's a very tempting proposition!

I feel you on this. It pisses me off that my ascetic lifestyle of frugal spending is probably going to be held against me later as I have to support those who chose a hedonistic lifestyle when it catches up with them.
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Of course it will, I have already been paying for mine from family members and such....But no more. Getting mean in my old age. But not yet mean enought to become a Rebutliken.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Its not a binary though. We can say there should be consequences for poor choices and not mean that people should starve in the streets. Now this may make me sound like a hardcore conservative but I think society would be served if people actually had to suffer a bit for their poor choices.

Start giving financial literacy classes in schools too.
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ABSOLUTELY, basic money management should be required to graduate GS and HS.
Understanding Credit, home loans, 401K, budgeting, etc....
 
Troglodyte27 said:
That's the hard part of freedom isn't it? The right to make your own choices, but that entails taking responsibility for the results. The toughest part for me is when kids suffer from the shitty decisions their parents make.

Financial literacy in school? Sponsored by Visa!
Click to expand...

I have suffered becuase of shitty decisions my son made. those innocent little Grandchildren....works both ways.

btw his mom dumped me when he was 3, I got little input in my sons raising.
 
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Damocles said:
I honestly believe that they will have to give more than, "We are not Republicans" in order to actually win.
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Not in a winner-take-all system.

And, Damo, do you REALLY want me to go into another rant about the irrationality of modern social choice theory in America and the pluarality system? I thought not. But it ensure that if the people hate republicans, and you win anything, and you are not a Republican, you will win.
 
uscitizen said:
ABSOLUTELY, basic money management should be required to graduate GS and HS.
Understanding Credit, home loans, 401K, budgeting, etc....
Click to expand...

My experience with "financial planning" classes has mostly been with a coach (who was only hired as a coach and had little experience anywhere else, and only put on the teaching staff because they had to throw him somewhere to fill up a teaching slot) has told me the difference between needs and wants (an ambigious and actually flawed concept that I "learned" in fucking Kindergarten) and sleeping through most of the classes and passing with an A. This is from someone who has actually experienced one, not someone who talks about experiencing one. Let's put the slot to better use, like Mathematics or language.
 
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