IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
Sounds like they just needed a better teacher. I've had crappy classes by bad teachers doesn't mean the subject matter isn't relevant.
Ron Paul Joins The Race
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OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
True, but good teachers are hard to find and almost impossible to guarantee. Especially if we're not willing to spend any money on salaries.
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
If people are willing to tolerate it is it really "bad" behavior? Social mores change, you know.
The efficacy of humiliation and loss of status has not diminished. Status is all there is, really: that's the heart of the monetary system, the political system and everything else.
We haven't lost social cohesion either. What's reduced over the past hundred years is cultural homogeneity. That's not the same thing.
IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
If people are willing to tolerate it is it really "bad" behavior? Social mores change, you know.
Tolerating and considering it bad are different though. We tolerate many bad behaviors like laziness, wastefulness, selfishness doesn't mean we don't think they are bad.
The efficacy of humiliation and loss of status has not diminished. Status is all there is, really: that's the heart of the monetary system, the political system and everything else.
This may be true but people are not humiliated or feel bad for very much. And if people do not speak up and change their behavior because of others then in their eyes their status has not diminished.
We haven't lost social cohesion either. What's reduced over the past hundred years is cultural homogeneity. That's not the same thing.
We have lost both if you ask me. No one interacts with their neighbors. People are not as involved with their community. People are more involved with activities that are done on an individual level. Watching TV, playing video games etc. This can even be seen in many families in which the family doesn't even speak to one another and even eat meals in separate rooms.
Tolerating and considering it bad are different though. We tolerate many bad behaviors like laziness, wastefulness, selfishness doesn't mean we don't think they are bad.
The efficacy of humiliation and loss of status has not diminished. Status is all there is, really: that's the heart of the monetary system, the political system and everything else.
This may be true but people are not humiliated or feel bad for very much. And if people do not speak up and change their behavior because of others then in their eyes their status has not diminished.
We haven't lost social cohesion either. What's reduced over the past hundred years is cultural homogeneity. That's not the same thing.
We have lost both if you ask me. No one interacts with their neighbors. People are not as involved with their community. People are more involved with activities that are done on an individual level. Watching TV, playing video games etc. This can even be seen in many families in which the family doesn't even speak to one another and even eat meals in separate rooms.
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
True: tolerance requires us to withhold comment on behaviors we, as individuals, think are "bad" behaviors. That's just the individual level, however. If a new consensus emerges and a behavior that was once considered "bad" is now neutral or even approved then it is, by definition, no longer a bad behavior.
For example, sex outside of marriage used to be considered "bad" behavior. It is no longer, at least by the consensus of this culture. This is exactly why so many extremists object to even simple tolerance of homosexuality: they're afraid that the consensus will shift and the negative connotation of the behavior(s) will disappear. And they're right, since it's happening now.
I disagree. Our sense of status is largely internal, not external. That's why therapists can charge so much money.
Have you ever watched -- discretely, one hopes -- people redeeming food stamps in the grocery store? I live in a poor, largely African American neighborhood and those EBT cards are ubiquitous. If I go to Pak 'n Save in the middle of a weekday, probably one person in three uses one. Almost without exception, though, they'll try to hide the fact that they're using welfare. They'll cover it up, hide their faces, mumble to the clerk if they can't get the card to read.
Assistance and concommitant loss of status are humiliating.
I agree with that. And I'm quite guilty of it myself. They actually had a discussion on how self absorbed people tend to be these days.
IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
True: tolerance requires us to withhold comment on behaviors we, as individuals, think are "bad" behaviors. That's just the individual level, however. If a new consensus emerges and a behavior that was once considered "bad" is now neutral or even approved then it is, by definition, no longer a bad behavior.
We should add that caveat no longer considered bad behavior as seen by society as a whole.
There is however enough variance in individual opinions to render the opinion of society as a whole irrelevant. Also this has the danger of majoritarianism determining right from wrong. Segregation was always wrong even when it as favored by most.
For example, sex outside of marriage used to be considered "bad" behavior. It is no longer, at least by the consensus of this culture. This is exactly why so many extremists object to even simple tolerance of homosexuality: they're afraid that the consensus will shift and the negative connotation of the behavior(s) will disappear. And they're right, since it's happening now.
True
I disagree. Our sense of status is largely internal, not external. That's why therapists can charge so much money.
I agree but our internal senses are most certainly shaped by our external influences. Most often a therapist is charging to help an individual cope with how another external entity has affected them.
Have you ever watched -- discretely, one hopes -- people redeeming food stamps in the grocery store? I live in a poor, largely African American neighborhood and those EBT cards are ubiquitous. If I go to Pak 'n Save in the middle of a weekday, probably one person in three uses one. Almost without exception, though, they'll try to hide the fact that they're using welfare. They'll cover it up, hide their faces, mumble to the clerk if they can't get the card to read.
Assistance and concommitant loss of status are humiliating.
I have observed this. I have also observed some people unabashed doing this although in smaller quantity. Within the African American urban community status and perception by others is important and curiously condemning of many of the acts the condemner engages in. It all depends on the cultural memes that are predominant.
It may be interesting to see if this effect has diminished over time.
We should add that caveat no longer considered bad behavior as seen by society as a whole.
There is however enough variance in individual opinions to render the opinion of society as a whole irrelevant. Also this has the danger of majoritarianism determining right from wrong. Segregation was always wrong even when it as favored by most.
For example, sex outside of marriage used to be considered "bad" behavior. It is no longer, at least by the consensus of this culture. This is exactly why so many extremists object to even simple tolerance of homosexuality: they're afraid that the consensus will shift and the negative connotation of the behavior(s) will disappear. And they're right, since it's happening now.
True
I disagree. Our sense of status is largely internal, not external. That's why therapists can charge so much money.
I agree but our internal senses are most certainly shaped by our external influences. Most often a therapist is charging to help an individual cope with how another external entity has affected them.
Have you ever watched -- discretely, one hopes -- people redeeming food stamps in the grocery store? I live in a poor, largely African American neighborhood and those EBT cards are ubiquitous. If I go to Pak 'n Save in the middle of a weekday, probably one person in three uses one. Almost without exception, though, they'll try to hide the fact that they're using welfare. They'll cover it up, hide their faces, mumble to the clerk if they can't get the card to read.
Assistance and concommitant loss of status are humiliating.
I have observed this. I have also observed some people unabashed doing this although in smaller quantity. Within the African American urban community status and perception by others is important and curiously condemning of many of the acts the condemner engages in. It all depends on the cultural memes that are predominant.
It may be interesting to see if this effect has diminished over time.
IHateGovernment
Is this your homework?
Basically Ornot shame and accountablility are not extinct but I do think their effect is being diminshed.
uscitizen
Villified User
Real country folks are not that way, just the city folks that move out here.
We hicks help and visit with our neighbors.
Have 2 of the neighbors cows in my yard right now, they were in the road and I herded them in here. did not call a cop or animal control....
He will get them when he gets home from work.
and I am sure he will repay the favor at some time in the future.