Ron Paul

People who oppose fiat currency are mainly those who have absolutely no idea how money works.

Honestly, Asshat, you sensationalists are just ridiculous. At no point in history have you been safer. At no point in history have people lived longer. At no point in history have you had any more individual autonomy (besides, of course, the stone age). And you just keep on crying "DOOM DOOM DOOM!"
 
Global capitalism, wherein a currency is widely traded as a commodity in itself, is more likely to rely on credit money which can reflect both (commodity) supplies and protections of supplies (by states’ military fiats). It is not held stable by any one state but rather by tension between states, as investment migrates from currency to currency in an open “money market”. As long as there is an international feedback mechanism, such that states attempting to inflate their currency suffer a corresponding drop in international buying power, and an internal feedback mechanism, so that the government is liable for economic failures that stem from fiscal or monetary irresponsibility, the money system does not take on the characteristics of a fiat money system. However, to proponents of hard money such mechanisms are not to be trusted, and all money not directly based on specie redeemable on demand is “fiat money”.
 
Watermark said:
Global capitalism, wherein a currency is widely traded as a commodity in itself, is more likely to rely on credit money which can reflect both (commodity) supplies and protections of supplies (by states’ military fiats). It is not held stable by any one state but rather by tension between states, as investment migrates from currency to currency in an open “money market”. As long as there is an international feedback mechanism, such that states attempting to inflate their currency suffer a corresponding drop in international buying power, and an internal feedback mechanism, so that the government is liable for economic failures that stem from fiscal or monetary irresponsibility, the money system does not take on the characteristics of a fiat money system. However, to proponents of hard money such mechanisms are not to be trusted, and all money not directly based on specie redeemable on demand is “fiat money”.
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Right. It can, in fact, create a simulated reality, based on the killing power of the military industrial complex which backs it. Talking about it in abstract terms doesn't make it moral. And rampant inflation is unavoidable, over time. I guess I'm a "proponent of hard money systems" because I feel such mechanisms are not to be trusted. The inordinate power of those who control the value of the currency is unacceptable.
 
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Darla said:
I'd be interested in knowing why not, if you don't mind going into some details.
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I particularly don't like his last divorce - a real mess and a slap in the face to his wife. I can see having a bad marriage and seeking to end it, but not in that fashion, not in front of the kids.

Great Prosecutor, definitely;
Great leader, maybe;
great moral example, NOT.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Right. It can, in fact, create a simulated reality, based on the killing power of the military industrial complex which backs it. Talking about it in abstract terms doesn't make it moral. And rampant inflation is unavoidable, over time. I guess I'm a "proponent of hard money systems" because I feel such mechanisms are not to be trusted. The inordinate power of those who control the value of the currency is unacceptable.
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No one controls the power of the currency. All nations that have fiat currency can't mess with a lot because it hurts their economy to do so. And therefore, money is really valuable soley as a medium of trade. Which isn't bad. It's value doesn't suddenly go down or up irrationally because it doesn't have any other uses. Gold, however, does have other uses. And if, for instance, electorics companies want to use it, they have to pay much more for it, because so much of it will now be used for nothing other than a trading medium. Using fiat is much more economically neutral.

Hell, Zombie, you can set money to anything. You could set it to dirt if you want to. It really doesn't matter that much, though.
 
Watermark said:
No one controls the power of the currency. All nations that have fiat currency can't mess with a lot because it hurts their economy to do so. And therefore, money is really valuable soley as a medium of trade. Which isn't bad. It's value doesn't suddenly go down or up irrationally because it doesn't have any other uses. Gold, however, does have other uses. And if, for instance, electorics companies want to use it, they have to pay much more for it, because so much of it will now be used for nothing other than a trading medium. Using fiat is much more economically neutral.

Hell, Zombie, you can set money to anything. You could set it to dirt if you want to. It really doesn't matter that much, though.
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You're totally wrong. The Federal Reserve sets the interest rate, essentially the price of money. And decides how much money to make.

the military industrial complex loves fiat curreny, they can use the extreme power to fulfill their statist dreams. And they do. Meanwhile, the rest of us are victims of rampant inflation. You're ignorant.
 
Watermark said:
Then get a different moral example. He's not head of state. He's head of government.
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Take a look at the last two administrations for examples of what happens when we decouple moral leadership from political leadership.
 
Troglodyte27 said:
I particularly don't like his last divorce - a real mess and a slap in the face to his wife. I can see having a bad marriage and seeking to end it, but not in that fashion, not in front of the kids.

Great Prosecutor, definitely;
Great leader, maybe;
great moral example, NOT.
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Well, I'm not sure I'm looking for someone to set a moral example necessarily, however, what he did is beyond the pale, and it makes me feel that something is missing, some basic ingredient of humanity, inside of him. And that, I don't want in a President. And I couldn't vote for him if he were a dem either.
 
Troglodyte27 said:
Take a look at the last two administrations for examples of what happens when we decouple moral leadership from political leadership.
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But by all published accounts, and I specify published accounts, Bush is a fine husband. Yet, morally deranged as a human being in my opinion. So you can't couple them too much, again, in my opinion. I think that there exists a breaking point though, in personal behavior, and I feel that Rudy passed that point.
 
governments can and do interfere in the funtioning of the reserve bank system, the global banking system, for political ends. China has been devaluing it's currently to dominate the production markets of the world. We have allowed them to keep things smooth, to the detriment of american workers. Hopefully our leader will stick up for us.


http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/3600.asp
US expects Chinese currency revaluation in a month – will India follow suit with Manmohan Singh’s visit?
Babu Ghanta
Jul. 15, 2005





US is looking into the manufacturing and service outsourcing unfair trade practice by China and India due to artificial lower value of their currencies. While Indian currency floats in open market, it is tightly controlled (far more tightly than even the Japanese) by Indian central Bank – Reserve Bank of India to make way for Indian oligarchs – the business community.

The Bush administration has told key senators that it expects China to revalue its currency in August ahead of a planned visit to Washington by President Hu Jintao in September, according to people familiar with the matter.

Senators Charles Schumer and Lindsey Graham, co-sponsors of a bill that would impose a 27.5 per cent tariff on Chinese imports, agreed to delay a vote on their bill after receiving what they regarded as an assurance that China will move on its currency next month.
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AssHatZombie said:
You're totally wrong. The Federal Reserve sets the interest rate, essentially the price of money. And decides how much money to make.

the military industrial complex loves fiat curreny, they can use the extreme power to fulfill their statist dreams. And they do. Meanwhile, the rest of us are victims of rampant inflation. You're ignorant.
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Inflation is usually 3%. Most of this is caused by the federal reserve trying to keep the banking system sound. Call that "rampant" if you want to. This is the most sound banking and money system America has ever had, thanks to Sir Greenspan.
 
Watermark said:
Inflation is usually 3%. Most of this is caused by the federal reserve trying to keep the banking system sound. Call that "rampant" if you want to. This is the most sound banking and money system America has ever had, thanks to Sir Greenspan.
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Over time it is rampant. We had a better system when money was backed by real value. The unprecedented power of the fed (a private company) is destructive, elitist, unwarranted and wrong.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Over time it is rampant. We had a better system when money was backed by real value. The unprecedented power of the fed (a private company) is destructive, elitist, unwarranted and wrong.
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When it is backed by "value" as you state here, it ebbs and flows by the amount of what it is backed by, as well as artificially inflating the cost of what it is backed by. It also creates laws such as the ban on Gold that was in the US in the past. One serious strike on gold could devalue your earnings in seconds.
 
I love how some people call Hillary a "carpet-bagger", yet, generally, the same people had no problem with Alan Keys running for Illinois Senate.

He was picked simply because he is black, and the Republicans thought that might have helped against Obama.


Right-Wing Logic Lesson for the day:

If Democrats do it, it is bad...

If Republicans do the same thing, it is, for reasons that cannot be shared with mere mortals, good.
 
Agnosticus_Caesar said:
I love how some people call Hillary a "carpet-bagger", yet, generally, the same people had no problem with Alan Keys running for Illinois Senate.

He was picked simply because he is black, and the Republicans thought that might have helped against Obama.


Right-Wing Logic Lesson for the day:

If Democrats do it, it is bad...

If Republicans do the same thing, it is, for reasons that cannot be shared with mere mortals, good.
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Most knew that he was a sacrificial lamb sent in so that there wouldn't be a no-opposition seat.
 
Agnosticus_Caesar said:
I love how some people call Hillary a "carpet-bagger", yet, generally, the same people had no problem with Alan Keys running for Illinois Senate.

He was picked simply because he is black, and the Republicans thought that might have helped against Obama.


Right-Wing Logic Lesson for the day:

If Democrats do it, it is bad...

If Republicans do the same thing, it is, for reasons that cannot be shared with mere mortals, good.
Click to expand...


That's right! I learned a long time ago "If a Republican does it, then that's OK"
 
If Democrats do it, it is bad...

If Republicans do the same thing, it is, for reasons that cannot be shared with mere mortals, good.

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Darn I have to agree with AHZ on this point, but then it is that "liberal" media helping to do it ?

Another myth busted ?
 
Damocles said:
When it is backed by "value" as you state here, it ebbs and flows by the amount of what it is backed by, as well as artificially inflating the cost of what it is backed by. It also creates laws such as the ban on Gold that was in the US in the past. One serious strike on gold could devalue your earnings in seconds.
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Economic growth should be tied to specific resources. Just like life. Abstracting it is what makes people dependant upon lies and violence.
 
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