rummy....

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grumpyone said:
it was not and no bush did not lie, he, cheney and co MAY have been wrong regarding wmd and certainly miscalculated the fall of saddam and even further grossly mismanaged the war based upon this small imprint bs and deep inside they all really really want western styled democracy.....that said, zero evidence exists to support an argument that bush lied, further it just does not make any sense on it's face unless you are a card carry member of the hate bush club that mushroomed after gore's loss.....
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If rummy said he KNEW where the WMD were located, that was a lie no matter how you slice it.
 
christiefan915 said:
That bit about the POTUS being the de facto leader of the free world is always a staple of right wing blogs, that is until they randomly anoint a new leader.

"These remarks were made in Hong Kong, not the United Nations building. The speaker was not the current President of the United States, who is sadly irrelevant to the cause of freedom. It was Sarah Palin – who is, for the moment, the de facto leader of the free world."

The economy failed because of a liquidity crisis (remember LIBOR?), burst of the housing bubble, subprime mortgage industry collapse. Why weren't the bushies on top of things making executive decisions while all this was going on starting in 2007? It's just too funny how you want to blame the collapse of the global economy on Barney Frank. Even the hackiest dullard has to concede there were multiple reasons, not just one spelled O-B-A-M-A..
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Do we have to re-post the warnings given in 2001, 2003 and later by Bush about the impending failure of Freddy and Fanny and what Barney and company replied again and again
until you finally get it ?
 
NOVA said:
Right...you dunno....no doubt about that either....coincidently, I had dinner with a friend suffering from Agent Orange exposure just last night.
course I never heard you say you would volunteer to serve on LBJ's or McNamara's firing squad...

I won't defend the mistakes of any of them, 20-20 hindsight and all that shit, but I certainly put do them in perspective and what they each cost the country....
The Gulf of Tonkin was a total lie and was used to kill tens of thousands of people....while the mistakes and beliefs of Bush and Rummy can be traced to beliefs (or lies, if you prefer) that were common to both partys and dozens of people in both partys and thats something that I certainly can't not consider .... mainly because its the undeniable historical truth.
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Wasn't the Vietnam war partially based on the domino theory, a belief both parties subscribed to?
 
NOVA said:
Do we have to re-post the warnings given in 2001, 2003 and later by Bush about the impending failure of Freddy and Fanny and what Barney and company replied again and again until you finally get it ?
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Read my lips: Barney Frank was not single-handedly responsible for the recession. It's a simplistic argument that defies logic.
 
christiefan915 said:
Wasn't the Vietnam war partially based on the domino theory, a belief both parties subscribed to?
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I guess you can go back to the Truman Doctrine or Ike or JFK if you want.....use whatever floats your boat to lessen the responsibility of LBJ for the Vietnam disaster....
 
christiefan915 said:
If rummy said he KNEW where the WMD were located, that was a lie no matter how you slice it.
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no son it was not....rummy was repeating the intel/info that had been broadly accepted by dems and reps, it was the basis for clinton's IRAQ LIBERATION ACT....i might add that saddam had quite a period of time to send wmd out of country or just bury it in the sand....depleted gulf was era wmd was recovered...so was enriched uranium....missiles with range well exceeding cease fire terms, dual use equipment and all of the informational underpinnings to kick off a wmd overnight.....
 
christiefan915 said:
Read my lips: Barney Frank was not single-handedly responsible for the recession. It's a simplistic argument that defies logic.
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True, ....Dodd and others gave him some assistance....the fact remains, they were warned about 3 or 4 times that trouble was coming and they still insisted everything
was great....Congress wasn't much help either.....
 
maineman said:
now that you've been called on your idiocy, you go back and google SECDEF and try to make it seem like an honest mistake. FAIL!

You don't know shit from fat meat.
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You mean like you tried to make it look like an honest mistake and said you didn't see the signs, regarding taking weapons into Mexico, when you crossed; because that was a massive fail, on your part.
But then; you've always been a liar.
 
maineman said:
well....first off.... there is no one that I am aware of posting here that fits that description. It certainly does not fit ME, I know that for a fact. I don't lie and I certainly don't live in a ghetto.
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But you do lie, liar, so that makes the rest of your assertions.........................................?
 
NOVA said:
I guess you can go back to the Truman Doctrine or Ike or JFK if you want.....use whatever floats your boat to lessen the responsibility of LBJ for the Vietnam disaster....
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I've condemned the Vietnam war and everyone who was party to advancing it so I'm not sure where your comment is coming from.
 
grumpyone said:
no son it was not....rummy was repeating the intel/info that had been broadly accepted by dems and reps, it was the basis for clinton's IRAQ LIBERATION ACT....i might add that saddam had quite a period of time to send wmd out of country or just bury it in the sand....depleted gulf was era wmd was recovered...so was enriched uranium....missiles with range well exceeding cease fire terms, dual use equipment and all of the informational underpinnings to kick off a wmd overnight.....
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Sorry about deconstructing your spin. The official DoD transcript says otherwise.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, weapons of mass destruction. Key goal of the military campaign is finding those weapons of mass destruction. None have been found yet. There was a raid on the Answar Al-Islam Camp up in the north last night. A lot of people expected to find ricin there. None was found. How big of a problem is that? And is it curious to you that given how much control U.S. and coalition forces now have in the country, they haven't found any weapons of mass destruction?

SEC. RUMSFELD: Not at all. If you think -- let me take that, both pieces -- the area in the south and the west and the north that coalition forces control is substantial. It happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.

Second, the [audio glitch] facilities, there are dozens of them, it's a large geographic area. It is the -- Answar Al-Islam group has killed a lot of Kurds. They are tough. And our forces are currently in there with the Kurdish forces, cleaning the area out, tracking them down, killing them or capturing them and they will then begin the site exploitation. The idea, from your question, that you can attack that place and exploit it and find out what's there in fifteen minutes.

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=2185
 
christiefan915 said:
Sorry about deconstructing your spin. The official DoD transcript says otherwise.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, weapons of mass destruction. Key goal of the military campaign is finding those weapons of mass destruction. None have been found yet. There was a raid on the Answar Al-Islam Camp up in the north last night. A lot of people expected to find ricin there. None was found. How big of a problem is that? And is it curious to you that given how much control U.S. and coalition forces now have in the country, they haven't found any weapons of mass destruction?

SEC. RUMSFELD: Not at all. If you think -- let me take that, both pieces -- the area in the south and the west and the north that coalition forces control is substantial. It happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.

Second, the [audio glitch] facilities, there are dozens of them, it's a large geographic area. It is the -- Answar Al-Islam group has killed a lot of Kurds. They are tough. And our forces are currently in there with the Kurdish forces, cleaning the area out, tracking them down, killing them or capturing them and they will then begin the site exploitation. The idea, from your question, that you can attack that place and exploit it and find out what's there in fifteen minutes.

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=2185
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And why would you assume that the intelligence he was privy to didn't tell him that is where they would find WMD ?.....You think he just made it all up ?....
 
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