APP - @Rune: Estate taxes should be severely reduced

Yurt said:
please read this thread again darla. i'm not against it. i stated quite clearly in the OP i believe in a flat 15% estate tax. would you get over your irrational hate and focus on the discussion. thanks..... and why can't you answer my questions?

imo, it had nothing to do with estates. it was just simply something they taxed to pay for the war and then it was repealed a few years later. if they were concerned about oligarchy issues like you claim.....why was it created to fund a war and then repealed?
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So the first estate tax had nothing to do with estates? Why are you against estate taxation and for a flat tax, explain.
 
Darla said:
So the first estate tax had nothing to do with estates? Why are you against estate taxation and for a flat tax, explain.
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answer my questions and then i will answer yours. i've asked you the questions a few times now and have answered yours. thank you.

i'm for taxing estates....but i'm against it....yeah...that makes a lot sense.
 
Yurt said:
answer my questions and then i will answer yours. i've asked you the questions a few times now and have answered yours. thank you.

i'm for taxing estates....but i'm against it....yeah...that makes a lot sense.
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So you are for an estate tax? But you said it's not what our country was founded upon. Explain.

Which question of yours haven't I answered?
 
Well, I have to go it's 5. I will give you the spoiler now Yurt.

The founders didn't institute an estate tax because they gave Congress the power to tax and spend. Hello.

Many of their writings directly address oligarchy and confiscation, including taking wealth after death and guess what? Redistributing it among the people. Yep.
 
Darla said:
So you are for an estate tax? But you said it's not what our country was founded upon. Explain.

Which question of yours haven't I answered?
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never said that....and honestly...i can't believe i need to repeat the questions. however, i will:

if they were concerned about oligarchy issues like you claim.....why was it created to fund a war and then repealed?
 
Darla said:
Well, I have to go it's 5. I will give you the spoiler now Yurt.

The founders didn't institute an estate tax because they gave Congress the power to tax and spend. Hello.

Many of their writings directly address oligarchy and confiscation, including taking wealth after death and guess what? Redistributing it among the people. Yep.
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that is not a spoiler. i already said i understand, somewhat, the reasons for the tax, just not the high rate. you support near total confiscation of wealth. that notion is absurd. the redistribution among the people is a myth. it goes right into the government coffers and the people never see it. if it was true redistribution, then whenever a wealthy person died and that estate tax would be given to the people in a form of a refund.
 
Darla said:
All inherited wealth will be treated equally. If your estate is 5 million, you won't pay an estate tax. If your estate is 5 billion, you won't pay an estate tax on the first 5 million.
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And when the dead guy's lawyers render his 5b to only register as 5m then he pays nada. There is a reason why people like Gates & Buffett seem ok with taxes. They only pay what they wish to pay.
 
Yurt said:
we agree on the reason for the tax, but not the amount. just because someone can "afford" to pay a tax, doesn't mean we should tax them. that is not what this country was founded on, nor is it any part of our current governmental philosophy. such a notion is akin to marxism. if we take that philosophy to its logical conclusion, then why not tax them 99% of their wealth...afterall...they can afford it.
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No, there is nothing logical about a 99% rate, just because you say so. Point invalid.
you didn't really move the goal posts, but i don't believe estate taxes do anything to alleviate your concern about legal bribery. there will always be wealthy people and not every wealthy person inherits their money.
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I already said this :palm:
there has been legal bribery since our founding and before taxes. taxes will never stop it. nor should taxes be the remedy to ending legal bribery. if you want to change that, don't steal people's money, create new campaign finance laws, but do not punish the wealthy simply for being wealthy. that is simply class warfare and something that should be beneath you.
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Putting words in my mouth isn't debating yurt.
taxing the wealthy estates to pay down the national debt is irresponsible. first, they have already been taxed. taxing them for political retribution (so the GOP can no longer use is as an excuse to cut social services) has to be the most heinous idea i've ever heard. you essentially want to use taxes to punish a political party. if you want to lower the national debt, how about cutting spending, cutting waste etc?
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Paying down the debt (which is in large part as high as it is due to completely unreasonable tax cuts for the wealthy) is unreasonable?

Everyone knows cutting spending alone is not enough to pay off the national debt. Taxes must be raised as well. How can you start by saying you support a 15% tax and then resort to saying they have already been taxed. Not logical, reassemble your argument and get back to me.
 
Rune said:
I didn't see myself giving up. What are you talking about?

this comment was completely irrelevant, since the debate isn't even about income tax.
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your one word comment, in all CAPS, was truly relevant rune....uh...yeah...and my comment was relevant because of darla's post. when you get pissy you always give lame responses.
 
Celticguy said:
And when the dead guy's lawyers render his 5b to only register as 5m then he pays nada. There is a reason why people like Gates & Buffett seem ok with taxes. They only pay what they wish to pay.
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You don't seem to understand how much 5 billion is. To give you a clue, it is 5000 million. No, you cannot hide 4995 million dollars. This is APP. Please try to remember that.
 
Rune said:
No, there is nothing logical about a 99% rate, just because you say so. Point invalid. I already said this :palm:
Putting words in my mouth isn't debating yurt.

Paying down the debt (which is in large part as high as it is due to completely unreasonable tax cuts for the wealthy) is unreasonable?

Everyone knows cutting spending alone is not enough to pay off the national debt. Taxes must be raised as well. How can you start by saying you support a 15% tax and then resort to saying they have already been taxed. Not logical, reassemble your argument and get back to me.
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you're not making any sense, whatsoever. what i said about them being already taxed is absolutely true. that you can't understand such a simple concept makes me wonder why you try to debate this subject.

you have wondered so far off the reservation of the debate topic i don't believe you even know what we are debating. for starters...i never said cutting spending "alone" is what it takes to pay down the national debt. secondly, that is not the debate topic.

pay attention rune.
 
Yurt said:
your one word comment, in all CAPS, was truly relevant rune....uh...yeah...and my comment was relevant because of darla's post. when you get pissy you always give lame responses.
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No dude, I was posting from my phone, the screen is shattered, it is a wicked pain in the ass, AND your comment wasn't relevant. Try to keep your personality judgements out of this please.
 
Yurt said:
you're not making any sense, whatsoever. what i said about them being already taxed is absolutely true. that you can't understand such a simple concept makes me wonder why you try to debate this subject.
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I understand it perfectly well. First you want to tax estates at 15% then you don't want to because they have already been taxed. Didn't say it isn't true, just that you are being inconsistent.
you have wondered so far off the reservation of the debate topic i don't believe you even know what we are debating. for starters...i never said cutting spending "alone" is what it takes to pay down the national debt. secondly, that is not the debate topic.

pay attention rune.
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You didn't have to, it was implied. Let's recap;

essentially want to use taxes to punish a political party. if you want to lower the national debt, how about cutting spending, cutting waste etc?

Furthermore, though I ignored it the first time, no, it isn't at all about punishing a party, it is about preserving social services.
Tea Party idiots managed to end extended unemployment benefits AND cut food stamps at the same time. Who is getting punished? Not the GOP. They can only justify this crap though, because of the huge national debt, and you know it. Don't try to twist my words into something I didn't say.
 
Yurt said:
with your responses recently how can you even think you have a win?

don't answer....i already know and your liberal buddies will be along shortly to congratulate you.
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Are you drunk? I didn't claim a win, I said you didn't win yet. Please, if you are inebriated, start over tomorrow. I am leaving to travel in the morning very early so I am pretty much done for the night. Have a good evening.
 
Rune said:
You don't seem to understand how much 5 billion is. To give you a clue, it is 5000 million. No, you cannot hide 4995 million dollars. This is APP. Please try to remember that.
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There are a number of ways to legally protect assets, size is not a concern. You can believe wealthy people have no trouble finding professionals to make this happen. Whale hunting isnt just something Japanese whalers do.
 
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