Rune's Ancestors
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Rationalist
Hail Voltaire
Rationalist
Hail Voltaire
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Tom, no posting personal info, please!
/MSG/
Uwaa OmO
On my phone so I'll post the links later. Basically though, rape was a big no-no for both groups.
As history is always written by the survivors, Christian bias was added to make the Vikings seem more savage and brutal, and thus their forced conversion to Christianity more justified.
In reality, the Vikings were as much farmers and traders as anything else. Although they did raid cities on occasion, they weren't nearly as violent as most Christian literature would have you believe.
There have never been any official cases of Vikings raping foreign peoples. It may have occurred, but not more so than in other cultures. The Vikings were peaceful settlers who often raided only in response to attacks on their culture or lands by invading Christian nations.
Many Viking archaeological dig sites produced no weapons and much farming equipment.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_vikings_rape_and_pillage
In reality, the Vikings were as much farmers and traders as anything else. Although they did raid cities on occasion, they weren't nearly as violent as most Christian literature would have you believe.
There have never been any official cases of Vikings raping foreign peoples. It may have occurred, but not more so than in other cultures. The Vikings were peaceful settlers who often raided only in response to attacks on their culture or lands by invading Christian nations.
Many Viking archaeological dig sites produced no weapons and much farming equipment.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_vikings_rape_and_pillage
Last edited:
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This is a very good article on the subject.
http://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-figures/viking4.htm
http://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-figures/viking4.htm
From Tom's own dumbass country;
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-wasnt-all-raping-and-pillaging-1643969.html
For centuries, they have been stereotyped as marauding barbarians arriving in their helmeted hordes to pillage their way across Britain. But now a group of academics believe they have uncovered new evidence that the Vikings were more cultured settlers who offered a "good historical model" of immigrant assimilation.
The evidence is set to be unveiled at a three-day Cambridge University conference starting today, when more than 20 studies will reveal how the Vikings shared technology, swapped ideas and often lived side-by-side in relative harmony with their Anglo-Saxon and Celtic contemporaries. Some may have come, plundered and left, but those Vikings who decided to settle rather than return to Scandinavia learnt the language, inter-married, converted to Christianity and even had "praise poetry" written about them by the Brits, according to the experts.
The conference, entitled "Between the Islands", draws on new archeological evidence, historical studies and analysis of the language and literature of the period, and shows that between the 9th and 13th centuries, the Vikings became an integral part of the fabric of social and political life that changed Britain and Ireland far more profoundly than previously realised. The academics hope it will tip the balance still further in the "raiders or traders" question.
Scholars will argue that they should be seen as an early example of immigrants who were successfully assimilated into British and Irish culture. Their so-called "invasion" led, to some extent, to the creation of trans-national identities, a process that has particular relevance to modern Britain. Dr Fiona Edmonds, of Cambridge University's department of Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Celtic, said: "The latest evidence does not point to a simple opposition between Vikings and natives.
"Within a relatively short space of time – and with lasting effect – the various cultures in Britain and Ireland started to intermingle. Investigating that process provides us with a historical model of how political groups can be absorbed into complex societies, contributing much to those societies in the process. There are important lessons that can be gained from this about cultural assimilation in the modern era."
Dr Máire Ní Mhaonaigh, who is co-organising the conference, said it was not a simple case of the Vikings coming and conquering. There was a "cross-fertilisation" of practices, including Anglo-Saxon communities adopting Norse names. "They were mutually transformed in the process, it was two-way interaction," she said. "Those who settled had to become different, and adapt to the society around them and learn to communicate with each other."
Some Viking kings learnt to speak English, Welsh and Irish as well as Latin, the language of the elite in Britain, and adopted Anglo-Saxon names. One king who settled in Ireland was honoured with "praise" poetry dedicated to his rule by the indigenous community. The Viking kings of Dublin, said Dr Ní Mhaonaigh, became a very active element of the city's political scene.
"What is clear is that the popular picture of Vikings is not quite as it seems, and when viewing their long-term presence, it is quite untrue. The communities were mutually transformed in the process. Of course, there was plundering and pillaging, but those who started to build camps and started to settle began interacting in a very different way," she said.
She added that King Amlaib, who settled in Dublin in the 10th century, became a Christian and was venerated by the local poets, while another leader from the mid-11th century, whose Welsh name was Gruffud ap Cynan, bore Welsh and Norse blood-ties, and spent a long time in Dublin. This, she said, was another example of cultural inter-mingling.
"It's a good historical model when a relatively small number of people can adapt and assimilate into a complex, sophisticated society," she said.
A new analysis of personal names in the Domesday Book also suggests that settlements established in Yorkshire from the 9th century retained their Gaelic-Scandinavian identity until the Norman Conquest. Even after the Battle of Hastings, and long after the Norse were believed to have been expelled from the area, there were people with some element of Scandinavian identity living happily in the heart of Anglo-Saxon Yorkshire. Through this time, they were able to hang on to elements of their Viking identity without expulsion by the indigenous people – further evidence that there was little opposition to these conquering emigres.
Research into Scandinavian settlements reveals a profound level of social and economic interaction between Viking incomers and the Celts. There was mixing in many towns and rural camps in Ireland, while recent studies of regional coins from the Viking age show that these rulers were far from impervious to local economies. In East Anglia, for example, where they had a well regulated monetary system, they adapted the existing economic system, while in other areas with only limited coin circulation, they introduced a bullion economy.
On a cultural level, Celtic folklore began to influence Viking literature. An analysis of Old Norse literary works that shows some of their tales may have been borrowed from Gaelic storytelling, thus the myths of Scandinavia, Ireland and Britain became inexorably intertwined. Professor Judith Jesch, from the University of Nottingham, reveals how Norse poetry was composed in the Hebrides. Professor Terje Spurkland, from the University of Oslo, has found that rune stones combined Scandinavian inscriptions with Celtic designs.
Over the centuries the importance of this cross-fertilisation was overshadowed by a skewed mythology of the Viking age that was created by 12th and 13th century Irish chroniclers and poets long after the Scandinavians' golden era had ended. A host of poems and prose narrative emerged which depicted the Vikings as "otherworldly beings" who came and stream-rollered across the cultural terrain of the British Isles.
These Irish writers went to great lengths to "extol the virtues of their Celtic ancestors who had fended off the Vikings", and so circulated this mythology of the maurading invader. It is only now, in recent decades, that academics have begun to unpick the stereotype and reveal an altogether different story.
From raiders to traders
They were prolific seafaring explorers, warriors and merchants from Denmark, Norway and Sweden who colonised swathes of Europe from the late 800s to the 12th century. In Norse, the word Viking means piracy and therefore the Vikings have become known as raiders who terrorised Europe instead of disciplined conquerors who established settlements as far afield as Constantinople, Greenland and Newfoundland.
There is archaeological evidence they discovered the Americas 500 years before Christopher Columbus. Their famed narrow longships allowed them to enter countries through rivers and it is this access which allowed them to settle and trade throughout Europe. A stereotyped image as a noble savage emerged in 17th century British texts and then again during the Victorian era. This image later turned into a cartoonish caricature of Vikings as barbarian invaders.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-wasnt-all-raping-and-pillaging-1643969.html
For centuries, they have been stereotyped as marauding barbarians arriving in their helmeted hordes to pillage their way across Britain. But now a group of academics believe they have uncovered new evidence that the Vikings were more cultured settlers who offered a "good historical model" of immigrant assimilation.
The evidence is set to be unveiled at a three-day Cambridge University conference starting today, when more than 20 studies will reveal how the Vikings shared technology, swapped ideas and often lived side-by-side in relative harmony with their Anglo-Saxon and Celtic contemporaries. Some may have come, plundered and left, but those Vikings who decided to settle rather than return to Scandinavia learnt the language, inter-married, converted to Christianity and even had "praise poetry" written about them by the Brits, according to the experts.
The conference, entitled "Between the Islands", draws on new archeological evidence, historical studies and analysis of the language and literature of the period, and shows that between the 9th and 13th centuries, the Vikings became an integral part of the fabric of social and political life that changed Britain and Ireland far more profoundly than previously realised. The academics hope it will tip the balance still further in the "raiders or traders" question.
Scholars will argue that they should be seen as an early example of immigrants who were successfully assimilated into British and Irish culture. Their so-called "invasion" led, to some extent, to the creation of trans-national identities, a process that has particular relevance to modern Britain. Dr Fiona Edmonds, of Cambridge University's department of Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Celtic, said: "The latest evidence does not point to a simple opposition between Vikings and natives.
"Within a relatively short space of time – and with lasting effect – the various cultures in Britain and Ireland started to intermingle. Investigating that process provides us with a historical model of how political groups can be absorbed into complex societies, contributing much to those societies in the process. There are important lessons that can be gained from this about cultural assimilation in the modern era."
Dr Máire Ní Mhaonaigh, who is co-organising the conference, said it was not a simple case of the Vikings coming and conquering. There was a "cross-fertilisation" of practices, including Anglo-Saxon communities adopting Norse names. "They were mutually transformed in the process, it was two-way interaction," she said. "Those who settled had to become different, and adapt to the society around them and learn to communicate with each other."
Some Viking kings learnt to speak English, Welsh and Irish as well as Latin, the language of the elite in Britain, and adopted Anglo-Saxon names. One king who settled in Ireland was honoured with "praise" poetry dedicated to his rule by the indigenous community. The Viking kings of Dublin, said Dr Ní Mhaonaigh, became a very active element of the city's political scene.
"What is clear is that the popular picture of Vikings is not quite as it seems, and when viewing their long-term presence, it is quite untrue. The communities were mutually transformed in the process. Of course, there was plundering and pillaging, but those who started to build camps and started to settle began interacting in a very different way," she said.
She added that King Amlaib, who settled in Dublin in the 10th century, became a Christian and was venerated by the local poets, while another leader from the mid-11th century, whose Welsh name was Gruffud ap Cynan, bore Welsh and Norse blood-ties, and spent a long time in Dublin. This, she said, was another example of cultural inter-mingling.
"It's a good historical model when a relatively small number of people can adapt and assimilate into a complex, sophisticated society," she said.
A new analysis of personal names in the Domesday Book also suggests that settlements established in Yorkshire from the 9th century retained their Gaelic-Scandinavian identity until the Norman Conquest. Even after the Battle of Hastings, and long after the Norse were believed to have been expelled from the area, there were people with some element of Scandinavian identity living happily in the heart of Anglo-Saxon Yorkshire. Through this time, they were able to hang on to elements of their Viking identity without expulsion by the indigenous people – further evidence that there was little opposition to these conquering emigres.
Research into Scandinavian settlements reveals a profound level of social and economic interaction between Viking incomers and the Celts. There was mixing in many towns and rural camps in Ireland, while recent studies of regional coins from the Viking age show that these rulers were far from impervious to local economies. In East Anglia, for example, where they had a well regulated monetary system, they adapted the existing economic system, while in other areas with only limited coin circulation, they introduced a bullion economy.
On a cultural level, Celtic folklore began to influence Viking literature. An analysis of Old Norse literary works that shows some of their tales may have been borrowed from Gaelic storytelling, thus the myths of Scandinavia, Ireland and Britain became inexorably intertwined. Professor Judith Jesch, from the University of Nottingham, reveals how Norse poetry was composed in the Hebrides. Professor Terje Spurkland, from the University of Oslo, has found that rune stones combined Scandinavian inscriptions with Celtic designs.
Over the centuries the importance of this cross-fertilisation was overshadowed by a skewed mythology of the Viking age that was created by 12th and 13th century Irish chroniclers and poets long after the Scandinavians' golden era had ended. A host of poems and prose narrative emerged which depicted the Vikings as "otherworldly beings" who came and stream-rollered across the cultural terrain of the British Isles.
These Irish writers went to great lengths to "extol the virtues of their Celtic ancestors who had fended off the Vikings", and so circulated this mythology of the maurading invader. It is only now, in recent decades, that academics have begun to unpick the stereotype and reveal an altogether different story.
From raiders to traders
They were prolific seafaring explorers, warriors and merchants from Denmark, Norway and Sweden who colonised swathes of Europe from the late 800s to the 12th century. In Norse, the word Viking means piracy and therefore the Vikings have become known as raiders who terrorised Europe instead of disciplined conquerors who established settlements as far afield as Constantinople, Greenland and Newfoundland.
There is archaeological evidence they discovered the Americas 500 years before Christopher Columbus. Their famed narrow longships allowed them to enter countries through rivers and it is this access which allowed them to settle and trade throughout Europe. A stereotyped image as a noble savage emerged in 17th century British texts and then again during the Victorian era. This image later turned into a cartoonish caricature of Vikings as barbarian invaders.
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Canceled
Well at least you didn't try to pass this off as your own words this time.
In the law
The oldest parts of the laws were not written down until the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] century. But laws are conservative and have elements that go further back in time.
According to the laws, women in Scandinavia had more rights than elsewhere in Europe. But they did not have the same rights as men. We must also take into consideration that the laws describe ideal conditions, how things are supposed to be, not what they really are.
A king could become a king, if only his mother was of royal blood.
A woman could meet at the thing
It was possible for women to inherit land and farm.
When a woman married, she brought a dowry with her into the marriage.
In case of a later divorce, the women could keep her dowry
Harald Fairhair passed a law against rape and prostitution
“For her sake he (Harald) at once protected the chastity of all by
passing a law by which the rape of women was punished by exile
or a fine of sixty marks which would cancel the exile.
He ordered that free-born women who had worked as prostitutes
should be conveyed to the palace and punished them with slavery,
until they had earned the price of their freedom which was three
marks of the same value, so that those who wished to be chaste
might be so, and none might transgress the limits of modesty with
impunity.” (Historia rerum Norwegacarum)
In the matter of honour, the women themselves were in no danger of being killed.
A man who laid hand on a woman had lost his honour, and he had damaged the honour of his family.
Sometimes the women also took revenge themselves.
This is what happened to Gunnar from Hlidarende in Njåls saga:
Gunnar’s home is attacked by enemies. Gunnar keep them away with his bow, but then his bowstring breaks, and he asks his wife Hallgerd if he can get two locks of her hair to make a new bowstring.Hallgerd asks if much depend on that. ”My life” he answers. Hallgerd then says: “Now is the time to remind you of that slap you gave me in my face”. She refuses to give away these two locks, and Gunnar is killed.
http://en.vikingkings.com/PortalDefault.aspx?portalID=116&activeTabID=813&parentActiveTabID=809
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
The Viking movements remind me of the Greek movements. Geography, terrain, population, etc., caused the Greek peoples to continually migrate, which is what led to the establishment of Hellenic Greece and the city states. Add to that the fact that Norse and Greek mythology are strikingly similar, and I imagine it was a product of the way the two societies lived, moved, and evolved. The primary difference is that the Vikings were never handed an Alexander. What they did do, though, was conquer Britain, and play a part in establishing what would grow to be the greatest Western European imperial achievement circa 1500-1900.
Sorry, quite unintentional, I assure you.
My son, who just returned from Norway this week, brought a copy of these laws.
Believe it or not, many of these were passed to me by my Father;
They had been changed slightly over the ages to adjust to conditions yet are still eminently recognizable.
Viking Laws
These are pretty straight forward.
Be brave and aggressive
Be direct
Grab all opportunities. Use varying methods of attack
Be versatile and agile
Attack one target at a time
Don’t plan everything in detail
Use top quality weapons
Be prepared
Keep weapons in good condition
Keep in shape
Find good battle comrades
Agree on important points
Choose one chief
Be a good merchant
Find out what the market needs
Don’t make promises that you can’t keep
Don’t demand overpayment
Arrange things so that you can return
Keep the camp in order
Keep things tidy and organized
Arrange enjoyable activities which strengthen the group
Make sure everyone does useful work
Consult all members of the group for advice
That these laws existed and still exist in any form are the best proof of Tom's idiocy.
Even the english word "law" is of Norsk origin. Idiot.
[url]http://soldiersystems.net/2011/07/31/viking-laws/
[/URL]
Believe it or not, many of these were passed to me by my Father;
They had been changed slightly over the ages to adjust to conditions yet are still eminently recognizable.
Viking Laws
These are pretty straight forward.
Be brave and aggressive
Be direct
Grab all opportunities. Use varying methods of attack
Be versatile and agile
Attack one target at a time
Don’t plan everything in detail
Use top quality weapons
Be prepared
Keep weapons in good condition
Keep in shape
Find good battle comrades
Agree on important points
Choose one chief
Be a good merchant
Find out what the market needs
Don’t make promises that you can’t keep
Don’t demand overpayment
Arrange things so that you can return
Keep the camp in order
Keep things tidy and organized
Arrange enjoyable activities which strengthen the group
Make sure everyone does useful work
Consult all members of the group for advice
That these laws existed and still exist in any form are the best proof of Tom's idiocy.
Even the english word "law" is of Norsk origin. Idiot.
[url]http://soldiersystems.net/2011/07/31/viking-laws/
[/URL]
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
I love how many of these aren't followed in my beloved Seattle. We are notiously passive-aggressive, and viewed as cold by outsiders. As such, we are rarely ever direct or aggressive (we prefer to go behind your back, obviously). We are never prepared (even for the rain, especially for the heat), we constantly make promises we can't keep, etc. A lot of these are group oriented, which, again passive-aggressive people don't pull those off very well.
Our city planning used to be phenominal back in the 50s-70s, such as with the Seattle World's Fair. Thankfully, we have built up some pretty damn fine businesses (provided those businesses don't market a sport) since the coming of the 80s, but our city planning is crap, and our transportation infrastructure is crumbling.
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Oh my God, it was just something I posted that I knew would rattle your cage. There is a a museum in York called Yorvik, the Viking word for York, which I took the kids to when they were younger.
About Jorvik
The world famous JORVIK Viking Centre is a ‘must-see’ for visitors to the city of York and is one of the most popular visitor attractions in the UK outside London.
Welcoming 15 million visitors over the past 25 years, visitors journey through the reconstruction of Viking-Age streets, as they would have been 1000 years ago. JORVIK Viking Centre also offers four exciting exhibitions and the chance to actually come face to face with a ‘Viking’.
The remains of 1,000 year old houses are revealed beneath your feet, objects taken from the excavations are explored and Viking-age timbers are brought before your eyes. New audio and video displays help you to investigate all of the information gathered from the 5-year long dig at Coppergate and piece together the jigsaw of where the Vikings came from, why they came here and how they lived and died.
At JORVIK Viking Centre you are standing on the site of one of the most famous and astounding discoveries of modern archaeology. Between the years 1976-81 archaeologists from York Archaeological Trust revealed the houses, workshops and backyards of the Viking-Age city of Jorvik as it stood 1,000 years ago. These incredible findings enabled them to build the JORVIK Viking Centre on the very site where the excavations had taken place, creating a groundbreaking visitor experience that enabled you to experience life in Viking-Age York.
As you travel around the Viking-age city of Jorvik aboard our state of the art time capsules you will encounter the old-Norse speaking citizens, see inside their houses and back yards, experience a blast of smoke from blacksmith’s furnace and enjoy the smell of home-cooked stew inside the home of our amber worker
http://jorvik-viking-centre.co.uk/