Russian Forces Decimated in Tank Battle

Doc Dutch said:
Even our allies didn't like the Iraq invasion. You and I are agreed it was a major mistake.

What does that have to do with these comments?:
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I thought I answered that.

Try this then:


"Insisting that the United States and its NATO allies should want exactly what Ukraine does is understandable politics — but it’s also dangerous policy.

Such insistence not only risks dragging us potentially into a nuclear war, it also risks giving Ukraine false hope and delaying a settlement. And our natural sympathy for Ukraine shouldn’t be confused for fully aligned interests.

Throughout the West, Russia’s invasion has prompted a widespread outpouring of support and solidarity. NATO members have helped frustrate Russia and have enabled Ukraine to mount an effective resistance with arms transfers, intelligence sharing and economic sanctions. And civil society has mobilized aid, making the Ukrainian flag a popular symbol of heroic defiance, internationalism and the survival of sovereign liberty.

Pretending Western interests are fully aligned with Kyiv’s risks further escalating the war.

For British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, “one of the proudest boasts in the free world is, ‘Ya Ukrainets’ — ‘I am a Ukrainian’.” According to U.S. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, “our job is to support the Ukrainians. They’ll set the military objectives, the objectives at the bargaining table … we’re not going to define the outcome of this for them. That is up for them to define and us to support them in.” Even President Joe Biden argues Ukraine is not just a humanitarian cause for the U.S. but a frontline state in a global war between freedom and autocracy. (Italics added)

At the same time, however, the British and U.S. governments have also made it clear that they will not give Ukraine all the weapons it wants or directly enter the conflict by imposing a no‐​fly zone or deploying troops. That reluctance reflects an obvious divergence of interests between the West’s and Kyiv’s.

Ukraine, with its independence on the line, wants all the NATO help it can get — escalation serves its interests. NATO countries on the other hand, sensibly wary of Russia and its nuclear arsenal, rightly resist.

So, a gap has opened in Western capitals between deeds that suggest an outer limit of involvement and words that suggest a harmony of interests...."


https://www.cato.org/commentary/wer...Ih52TtJ--_QIVocmUCR1UyQe1EAAYASAAEgLlVPD_BwE#
 
Cypress said:
Putin has been festering with resentment since the 1990s that Ukraine declared it's independence.

Vlad blames Lenin and the Bolsheviks for even recognizing there was a distinct Ukranian cultural identity.

Putin sees Ukraine, and especially Kyiv, as essentially Russian and Russian territory, ground zero for East Slavic civilization. He sees himself as having a mission to gather up all the East Slavic peoples under the leadership of Moscow.

That messianic vision exists independently of NATO, Biden, or the EU.
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Agreed. Ukraine was always known as the Breadbasket of Europe. The Soviet Union made it the Breadbasket of Russia. Now Russia's breadbasket is empty and Putin wants to get it back. Putin also needs warm water ports on the eastern side of Russia. That means access to the Black Sea, something Russia has always considered to be a Russian lake just like Iran considers the Persian Gulf an Iranian lake.

Sure, there's historical social things, but the bottom line of war is always a conflict over resources and/or geography. This is war is aboutresources, the breadbasket, and geography, friendly warm water ports for Russia.

Most Americans have a problem finding themselves on a map much less other countries. Below is a picture comparing the fact that most European countries are on the same latitude as Canada. Even the Ukrainian capitol Kiev with the "warm water" ports is on the same latitude as Chicago. Different climates present different challenges.

yIe8gWy.jpg
 
martin said:
I thought I answered that.

Try this then:

"Insisting that the United States and its NATO allies should want exactly what Ukraine does is understandable politics — but it’s also dangerous policy.

Such insistence not only risks dragging us potentially into a nuclear war, it also risks giving Ukraine false hope and delaying a settlement. And our natural sympathy for Ukraine shouldn’t be confused for fully aligned interests...

https://www.cato.org/commentary/wer...Ih52TtJ--_QIVocmUCR1UyQe1EAAYASAAEgLlVPD_BwE#
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Tried it. So what?

Are you back to advocating letting Putin take whatever countries he needs? Same for China? Depending upon your age, you might have something to worry about in that plan, but I'm guessing you think the consequences won't be faced until 50 or so years from now so you are willing to have fun now and let the future fend for itself. LOL
 
moon said:
Invasion isn't the only cause of war.
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Invasion is not a cause of war. Invasion is the first act of war, it is not a cause. Bombs are a way to generate an explosion, they are not a reason for it....

How else to describe this...

If I invade my neighbor because I want his well, the cause of the invasion was me wanting his well, not the fact that I invaded his home.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Tried it. So what?

Are you back to advocating letting Putin take whatever countries he needs? Same for China? Depending upon your age, you might have something to worry about in that plan, but I'm guessing you think the consequences won't be faced until 50 or so years from now so you are willing to have fun now and let the future fend for itself. LOL
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Good you’re feeling better, at least. You couldn’t have misread what I said much worse.
 
Damocles said:
Invasion is not a cause of war. Invasion is the first act of war, it is not a cause. Bombs are a way to generate an explosion, they are not a reason for it....

How else to describe this...

If I invade my neighbor because I want his well, the cause of the invasion was me wanting his well, not the fact that I invaded his home.
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Well, let's say that ' war ' starts when the invaded engages the invader. It can hardly be called ' war ' if the invaded do not respond.
Your well-deprived party can't have a war on his own- but he could be charged with starting one should he encounter opposition- and I dare say that the war crimes tribunal would note his thirst as the primary cause of the conflict, yes.
Happy to split the point ?
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
hating suicide bombers that kill school children must make me an Islamophobe in your mind....your mind is a shallow wade...
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Let's nail you down then- in the hope that you cease regurgitating your favorite canard.

The neo-Zionist filth have killed THOUSANDS of Palestinian kids. THOUSANDS. They have killed more than ten times more Palestinians than vice versa.
While I agree, of course, that the Palestinian extremists' killing of Israeli children was wrong- it is only a fraction of that same wrong coming from the other direction.
Now- either criticize the neo-Zionist filth for their killing of thousands of Palestinian children or stfu.
 
moon said:
Let's nail you down then- in the hope that you cease regurgitating your favorite canard.

The neo-Zionist filth have killed THOUSANDS of Palestinian kids. THOUSANDS. They have killed more than ten times more Palestinians than vice versa.
While I agree, of course, that the Palestinian extremists' killing of Israeli children was wrong- it is only a fraction of that same wrong coming from the other direction.
Now- either criticize the neo-Zionist filth for their killing of thousands of Palestinian children or stfu.
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my "favorite canard" is undeniable fact....your lies are your lies......when a sixteen year old throws rocks at Israeli soldiers and gets shot it does not equate to the Palestinians putting an explosive vest on another sixteen year old and telling him that his parents will be taken care of if he gets on a school bus and kills dozens.......or equate to putting a rocket launcher next to a school so you can whine about the school taking damage in a retaliatory action......we "nailed" you down years ago.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
my "favorite canard" is undeniable fact....your lies are your lies......when a sixteen year old throws rocks at Israeli soldiers and gets shot it does not equate to the Palestinians putting an explosive vest on another sixteen year old and telling him that his parents will be taken care of if he gets on a school bus and kills dozens.......or equate to putting a rocket launcher next to a school so you can whine about the school taking damage in a retaliatory action......we "nailed" you down years ago.......
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Jewish fascists placed a bomb outside a Palestinian girls' school- in a pram. Whereas your ' suicide bomber ' event may have killed children they were not TARGETED as fascist Jews target children as part of their policy of infanticide.
What's your comment on the pram bomb ? Let's hear your condemnation- or stfu.

The neo-Zionist filth have murdered THOUSANDS of Palestinian children. Their stories are waiting to be told at the ICC.
 
Good for Ukraine.

Kick the invaders out.

Retake Crimea.

Putin needs to face war crime charges. He had no business invading Ukraine.
 
moon said:
Jewish fascists placed a bomb outside a Palestinian girls' school- in a pram. Whereas your ' suicide bomber ' event may have killed children they were not TARGETED as fascist Jews target children as part of their policy of infanticide.
What's your comment on the pram bomb ? Let's hear your condemnation- or stfu.

The neo-Zionist filth have murdered THOUSANDS of Palestinian children. Their stories are waiting to be told at the ICC.
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I've watched you promote violence since you got here.......you've got no legs to stand on......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I've watched you promote violence since you got here.......you've got no legs to stand on......
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We'll come back to the two charges that you think you've dodged. Meanwhile, I've made thousands of posts here. Let's see you produce- say ten- as evidence of this promotion of violence that you claim. Or stfu.
 
moon said:
We'll come back to the two charges that you think you've dodged. Meanwhile, I've made thousands of posts here. Let's see you produce- say ten- as evidence of this promotion of violence that you claim. Or stfu.
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every time you give support to the murderous Palestinians.....
 
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