Segregation now, segregation forever!

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Check with Brown v. Board to see what the Supreme Court says was intended by the Amendment.

No the Integration Act of 1875 was passed by a Radical Republican Congress, they lost power soon after and thus the provisions of these laws and others like them were watered down, that does not deminish the accomplishments of the more liberal Republicans that had previsusly held the majority in Congress.

Jarhead, the people who lived in America in 1875, were not "enlightened" by the wisdom of Supreme Court justices in 1954! They just weren't! Nothing in the text of the bills, or any speech promoting them, has anything to do with desegregation or integration of blacks or any other race into white society. In 1876, they stole millions of acres from the Blackfoot tribe and sent them to reservations as wards of the state! Many of the so-called "abolitionists" of the time, proposed sending black slaves to Haiti or Monrovia! A town in Liberia named for President Monroe, who first promoted this idea in the early to mid 1800s. Abe Lincoln actually ordered the purchase of land in Haiti and South America, where he planned to send the freed slaves upon emancipation! These people were not the slightest bit interested in "integration" and for you to pretend that was the case, is a display of sheer historical ignorance.

 

[Jarod]

Jarhead, the people who lived in America in 1875, were not "enlightened" by the wisdom of Supreme Court justices in 1954! They just weren't! Nothing in the text of the bills, or any speech promoting them, has anything to do with desegregation or integration of blacks or any other race into white society. In 1876, they stole millions of acres from the Blackfoot tribe and sent them to reservations as wards of the state! Many of the so-called "abolitionists" of the time, proposed sending black slaves to Haiti or Monrovia! A town in Liberia named for President Monroe, who first promoted this idea in the early to mid 1800s. Abe Lincoln actually ordered the purchase of land in Haiti and South America, where he planned to send the freed slaves upon emancipation! These people were not the slightest bit interested in "integration" and for you to pretend that was the case, is a display of sheer historical ignorance.

Simply because many were for segregation does not mean none were for integration.

Clearly there were Senators and Congressmen who were supporting the cause of integration.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Simply because many were for segregation does not mean none were for integration.

Clearly there were Senators and Congressmen who were supporting the cause of integration.

I never said NO ONE was for it... just no one in political power to make it happen. Our system, our society, our rule of law, was formed around a policy of segregation, and it was upheld and condoned for decades... centuries even! It wasn't really until late 1940s, that America began to change the collective social viewpoint. To attempt to interject some modern interpretation of equal rights for blacks, onto the laws and acts passed in 1875, and claim the same mindset prevailed then, is ludicrous. We simply can't do that and remain honest in our viewpoints of history!

We can all agree that, historically, the Nazi Movement and Hitler, were wildly popular with Germans before WWII! That is not an endorsement or excuse for what they advocated, that is not some vague level of support for what they did, or justification of it in any way! It's just simple admission of the truth, as it pertains to historic perspective, the people of Germany were in full support of their leaders. We can't claim that some Jewish resistance and support groups were trying to "reform" the Nazis! That is nonsense, that is just plain dishonest bullshit that doesn't comport with reality, and that is your "argument" here.

 

[Jarod]

I never said NO ONE was for it... just no one in political power to make it happen. Our system, our society, our rule of law, was formed around a policy of segregation, and it was upheld and condoned for decades... centuries even! It wasn't really until late 1940s, that America began to change the collective social viewpoint. To attempt to interject some modern interpretation of equal rights for blacks, onto the laws and acts passed in 1875, and claim the same mindset prevailed then, is ludicrous. We simply can't do that and remain honest in our viewpoints of history!

We can all agree that, historically, the Nazi Movement and Hitler, were wildly popular with Germans before WWII! That is not an endorsement or excuse for what they advocated, that is not some vague level of support for what they did, or justification of it in any way! It's just simple admission of the truth, as it pertains to historic perspective, the people of Germany were in full support of their leaders. We can't claim that some Jewish resistance and support groups were trying to "reform" the Nazis! That is nonsense, that is just plain dishonest bullshit that doesn't comport with reality, and that is your "argument" here.

So are Senators and Congressmen people you would consider "in political power"?

What about a President?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

So are Senators and Congressmen people you would consider "in political power"?

What about a President?

It all depends on how they got to be Senators and Congressmen. If they were selected by a makeshift state legislature during reconstruction, they were hardly legitimate representatives of the people, and had virtually no political power. I stand by my statement, and you've not refuted it... no president from Lincoln to Johnson, ran on the promise of desegregation, or advocated it in any campaign speech. Had they done so, the people would have soundly rejected them, because the idea was not popular in America until the late 40s early 50s.

Now, what was genuinely in their hearts, what they really deep down inside, felt was the 'right thing to do', I can't say, I don't know, but they certainly did not stand up for these principles or indicate this was a cause too big for politics. Over and over, throughout history, Congress, the president, and the SCOTUS, upheld the practices of segregation and discriminated against blacks. It all goes back to my point in the original post, it's always easier for us to conform to society than to change it. It was politically smarter and easier to tolerate segregation, or even advocate the continuation of it, than to speak out against the injustice of it, or demand it be deconstructed. That's not an 'excuse' for it, that's not a 'justification' of it... that's just recognition of the truth about it, as it pertains to history and reality. Until Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., no one had the courage to speak on the national stage about the injustices, and demand they be ended.

You are lost in some fantasy world, where the 1875 Congress was full of duly-elected pro-civil rights Liberals who were clamoring for racial equality like it was 1963! The truth is, literal GENOCIDE was happening ACROSS America, and Congress has to pass some kind of legislation to enable them the leverage and ability to take control of the situation on a Federal level. I suppose the black corpses piling up in Omaha and Detroit, were getting in the way of the white people going back and forth to work... something HAD to be done! The CRA of 1875, and other similar acts, were the legislation needed for the Feds to send in the National Guard, and STOP the genocide.

If we honestly and objectively look at the intent of those who passed the CRA of 1875, we can see there was NO INTENT to integrate races, because of what they approved into law in the months and years to follow. Native Americans certainly were not given "equal rights" or allowed to "integrate" into the white population, they were summarily run off of their own lands, and herded onto reservations and made wards of the state! THE SAME PEOPLE responsible for the CRA of 1875, were also responsible for this! How you can claim, with a straight face, they were endorsing or advocating 'integration', is beyond me. Nothing is further from truth.

So to summarize, right now... We have Dixie presenting a comprehensive history of actual events that took place across America, which demonstrate a clear hostility toward blacks and complete unwillingness of America to desegregate.... and we have you braying like a jackass about some myopic fantasy world view, that isn't supported by reality or logic.

 

[Jarod]

Your satement has now morphed into... "no president from Lincoln to Johnson, ran on the promise of desegregation, or advocated it in any campaign speech."


Thats different than, Noone in political power ever advocated integration, aint it?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Your satement has now morphed into... "no president from Lincoln to Johnson, ran on the promise of desegregation, or advocated it in any campaign speech."


Thats different than, Noone in political power ever advocated integration, aint it?

No it's a complete refutation of your insane and idiotic view, that Americans of 1875 were standing up for integration or desegregation, or even true equality for black people or any other minority race in America! The fact is, no political leader was advocating what you claim was the prevailing thought in 1875! NONE OF THEM! Not even the President who signed the CRA of 1875 into law!

My statement remains consistent throughout this thread, America (by and large), sat back and allowed slavery, and then segregation! For DECADES, American courts upheld the practice, and politicians endorsed it! For DECADES, blacks were routinely discriminated against, in some cases, outright mass-murdered by hoards of white people who refused to allow them to integrate into THEIR society! This happened in every corner of America, from sea to shining sea!

If you want to live in some warped fantasy world, where the South somehow managed to just outright violate the Constitution and rule of law for a century, and none of this ever happened in the North, that is between you and the rainbow unicorns, I won't disturb you! What you are trying to do, is at the height of intellectual dishonesty. You are attempting to apply a 1954 interpretation of the Constitution to 1875 America, and it doesn't comport with reality or logic to do so, nor does history indicate this was the case.

 

[Taichiliberal]

I think I know a little about the Confederacy, and the facts regarding it. I'll put my knowledge up against yours on that any day. No soldiers who fought and died in the Civil War, ever owned a slave. The people who fought and died under the Confederate battle flag, were not fighting for any 'morality' issue regarding slavery, and neither was the North (in the beginning) for that matter. As you said, slavery was an afterthought, it was not the reason these boys went and died in the most brutal war of our history.

And here folks, is just one reason why our David Duke wanna be is just full of it. He makes an declarative statement as if he's an authority on the subject...which is a joke given his convoluted logic displayed on these threads. Now watch him squirm when confronted with some REAL fact based analysis:

"....The census data allows us to determine this on a state-by-state basis and from this we get that there were about 454,000 men from slave-holding families available to the Confederacy, using the larger manpower pool; and about 370,000, using the smaller manpower pool."


http://www.2ndscvi.com/slavery-statistics.htm

 

[Socrtease]

Elected by the non-racist forward-thinking Southern state of South Carolina!
LMAO... From the Great Desegregationist State of South Carolina!
LMAO... From the Great Desegregationist State of South Carolina!
LMAO... From the Great Desegregationist State of South Carolina!
LMAO... From the Great Desegregationist State of South Carolina!
LMAO... From the Great Desegregationist State of South Carolina!

IDIOT!

You keep saying this but according the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress he was the first black person directly elected to congress. http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=R000016 What about this don't you understand? He served from 1870 to 1879. He was re-elected more than once. There is NOTHING idiotic about this statement. He stood for election in the State of South Carolina.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

And here folks, is just one reason why our David Duke wanna be is just full of it. He makes an declarative statement as if he's an authority on the subject...which is a joke given his convoluted logic displayed on these threads. Now watch him squirm when confronted with some REAL fact based analysis:

"....The census data allows us to determine this on a state-by-state basis and from this we get that there were about 454,000 men from slave-holding families available to the Confederacy, using the larger manpower pool; and about 370,000, using the smaller manpower pool."


http://www.2ndscvi.com/slavery-statistics.htm

And of the men from "slave-holding families" ...How many of them actually OWNED slaves themselves? Because THAT is what I stated, rather than what you are now trying to CLAIM I stated. I get tired of your dishonesty, Chicklet. The words I posted are right there in black and white, why do you persist in trying to change them?

David Duke would have never made the arguments I have made here, although he would be proud of you for diverting the attention from real racists to focus on me, since I have a confederate flag in my avatar... He would probably bestow some Grand Wizard title upon you for the effort you've made here, to distract and divert people's attention from true racist practices in America.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You keep saying this but according the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress he was the first black person directly elected to congress. http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=R000016 What about this don't you understand? He served from 1870 to 1879. He was re-elected more than once. There is NOTHING idiotic about this statement. He stood for election in the State of South Carolina.

No Sochead, he was not "directly elected to Congress" at all. During this time, Congress was appointed by State Legislature, not elected by the people. Also, during this time, the legitimately elected principles of the state of South Carolina, had resigned in order to become part of the CSA, so they were replaced by the US Congress who held authority over Southern States until the end of Reconstruction. Those "replacements" were who selected this man to office, he was never elected by the people of South Carolina.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

There is NOTHING idiotic about this statement. He stood for election in the State of South Carolina.

IF you understand one inkling of ANYTHING pertaining to the state of South Carolina, where the fucking Civil War STARTED... It is indeed idiotic beyond belief, that someone could rationally think that southerners in that state elected a black man to political office as their representative in 1870...1880...1890...1900...1910....1920....1930...1940....1950...1960... or even 1970! You have to be a fucking brain-dead retard to believe that to be the case!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Chicklet's own source:
It needs to be said at the outset that any effort to estimate the number of Confederate soldiers from slave-holding families is an exercise fraught with difficulties. A lot of the data is very inexact, and the results can be considered as very rough estimates, only. Nonetheless, we can gain some insight into the situation by considering different estimates. Just bear in mind that all of the final results are "soft estimates."

Based on this range of values, I would say that a decent estimate for the number of men from slave-holding families in the Confederate army would be around 30-35%.

I can make the statement that the US participated and fought WWII for the express purpose of ending atrocities against the Jewish people of Germany. Is that a true statement? Does it make it more true if I show you where 3 in 10 soldiers who fought for the US, had ties to Judaism? Certainly, the end result of our winning the war, was the liberation of millions of Jews from concentration camps, and an end to the atrocities being committed against them at the hands of the Nazis, but is that an honest assessment and evaluation of WHY we fought WWII?

 

[NOVA]

The only way the boneheads libs can try to steal a point is to mis-quote, mis-characterize, mis-understand or simply lie about wqhat is actually posted....
Its guaranteed to happen in EVERY debate, EVERY one....

 

[Jarod]

No it's a complete refutation of your insane and idiotic view, that Americans of 1875 were standing up for integration or desegregation, or even true equality for black people or any other minority race in America! The fact is, no political leader was advocating what you claim was the prevailing thought in 1875! NONE OF THEM! Not even the President who signed the CRA of 1875 into law!

My statement remains consistent throughout this thread, America (by and large), sat back and allowed slavery, and then segregation! For DECADES, American courts upheld the practice, and politicians endorsed it! For DECADES, blacks were routinely discriminated against, in some cases, outright mass-murdered by hoards of white people who refused to allow them to integrate into THEIR society! This happened in every corner of America, from sea to shining sea!
If you want to live in some warped fantasy world, where the South somehow managed to just outright violate the Constitution and rule of law for a century, and none of this ever happened in the North, that is between you and the rainbow unicorns, I won't disturb you! What you are trying to do, is at the height of intellectual dishonesty. You are attempting to apply a 1954 interpretation of the Constitution to 1875 America, and it doesn't comport with reality or logic to do so, nor does history indicate this was the case.

I do not disagree with the bolded part, but that is what your statement has morphed into after I proved to you that some people in political power fought for integration.

 

[Jarod]

You keep saying this but according the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress he was the first black person directly elected to congress. http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=R000016 What about this don't you understand? He served from 1870 to 1879. He was re-elected more than once. There is NOTHING idiotic about this statement. He stood for election in the State of South Carolina.

Ive pointed that out umpteen thousand times, he just ignores it and continues to pretend he never saw it.

 

[Jarod]

No Sochead, he was not "directly elected to Congress" at all. During this time, Congress was appointed by State Legislature, not elected by the people. Also, during this time, the legitimately elected principles of the state of South Carolina, had resigned in order to become part of the CSA, so they were replaced by the US Congress who held authority over Southern States until the end of Reconstruction. Those "replacements" were who selected this man to office, he was never elected by the people of South Carolina.

FALSE, Senators were appointed by the State Legislature. The House of Representatives were elected by the people!

Look it up, you are so ignorant about post-civil war history!

 

[Jarod]

The only way the boneheads libs can try to steal a point is to mis-quote, mis-characterize, mis-understand or simply lie about wqhat is actually posted....
Its guaranteed to happen in EVERY debate, EVERY one....

Just a naked statement like that is so dumb and such "empty calories" that it is to be ignored.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I do not disagree with the bolded part, but that is what your statement has morphed into after I proved to you that some people in political power fought for integration.

Jarhead, excuse me, but you haven't proved anything! My point has not "morphed" one little bit...

1st Post: The truth is, we began life in a segregated society at the end of the Civil War. For an entire century, our society was indeed segregated, adopted and maintained segregationist policies, and supported continued segregationist policies in every phase of government, which was completely controlled by whites. We were segregationists through the end of the 1800s, into the 1900s, through two world wars... we sent black soldiers to fight and die for America, and returned them home to sit on the back of the bus. We did this in the South, North, East and West! There was nowhere we didn't practice segregation and discrimination against black Americans! This WAS the law!

567th Post: My statement remains consistent throughout this thread, America (by and large), sat back and allowed slavery, and then segregation! For DECADES, American courts upheld the practice, and politicians endorsed it! For DECADES, blacks were routinely discriminated against, in some cases, outright mass-murdered by hoards of white people who refused to allow them to integrate into THEIR society! This happened in every corner of America, from sea to shining sea!

Does ANYONE see any difference in my point from the beginning to the end? You see, Jarhead, I think what has happened is this... You, Chicklet, and others, have projected a line of thinking onto me, because it is something you really deep down wish I was saying, but it's never been something I have said. After 500+ posts, you are now starting to realize you agree with what I have been saying all along, but... damn, you just can't make your fingers type that! So, now... you want to "pretend" that I "morphed" my position into the current one, when that clearly never happened. I suppose that is as close as I get to a concession from you?

 

[Jarod]

KEY...

Red and black words = DIRECT QUOTES FROM DIXIE IN THIS THREAD... Red = particullary egrious misunderstanding of reality!
BLUE WORDS = My RESPONCES.....

-----------------------------


The truth, as ugly as it may be, is that every politician prior to 1965, is responsible for supporting segregationist policy, because they DID! Repeatedly! For a century, every president, every Congress, and every Judge they appointed, upheld and maintained a system of complete and total segregation in America!

WRONG!

No one in their right political mind, in 1948, would have been opposed to segregation!

Plent of people in their right political mind were!

Throughout history, there have not been people in political power, advocating change in our segregationist policy, prior to 1963! It doesn't exist, because black people were shut out of the political process, and it was not an issue, it was presumed and assumed you supported and condoned segregationist policy, because that was how things were in America. No one stood up and said it was bad! Everyone accepted it, and continued to condone it!

FALSE

there were people in 1864 who thought slaves were equal to whites! Unfortunately, NONE of them were political figures, or able to be political figures, because the overwhelming majority of an ALL WHITE electorate, fundamentally disagreed with them!

FALSE!

They didn't engage in political debate on the issue! They didn't campaign or advocate for the issue! They didn't put the issue in their national platforms! It may not signify support for segregationist policies, but it sure doesn't imply there was a fight against them. You can say that "plenty opposed" the status quot when it came to segregation, but it wasn't "plenty" or the law would have changed, politicians would have campaigned on the issue, people would have initiated change, had that been the case. Let's tell the truth, shall we? Aside from a few black activists and a few pinhead liberal elites, no one in America was advocating against segregation until the early 60s.

FALSE!

I have not denied there were activists speaking out against segregation, I made that abundantly clear 50 posts back, it's not what I have said. Our society as a whole, including ALL the political representatives we elected to office, held a view condoning segregation, or tacitly refused to take a firm stand on the issue. That is the truth, that is how things were in America. You can deny that, and claim it wasn't the case, but it most certainly was.

AGAIN FALSE!

The history of the struggle is, for nearly 100 years, there was no struggle, segregation was accepted and condoned, and affixed in our society by the politicians, congress, judges, and any other positions of authority, which were all controlled by white people!


With regard to political leaders, congressmen who could effectively change laws, presidents, judges, etc.... there were essentially NONE! From 1864 to 1964, the number of such leaders can be counted on less than one hand! For you to keep insisting this was not the case, is laughable and foolish.

FALSE!


No politician was out there "pushing for" desegregation and racial equality! It just wasn't happening in the real world! To a fault, every damn one of them were either promoting segregation, or tacitly accepting of it...a 'necessary evil', or whatever. None of them stood up to challenge it or speak against it... for 100 years! Well, almost 100, anyway....

FALSE!

We had NO Congressmen who were the least bit concerned with giving black people a completely desegregated society! NONE! If you can cite any example prior to WWII, I would love to see it! Truth is, it doesn't exist!

I GAVE YOU SEVERAL EXAMPLES!

Our society as a whole, including ALL the political representatives we elected to office, held a view condoning segregation, or tacitly refused to take a firm stand on the issue.


FALSE!

From the time of the Civil War until after WWII, the overwhelming majority of people in America, were supportive of the segregation policies. No one in political power, or seeking political power, was advocating desegregation. This went on for decades, Congress after Congress, Supreme Court after Supreme Court, President after President!

FALSE!

No one in political power or running for any high-level political office, supported, condoned, or advocated desegregation, prior to WWII. If you have ANY example, please post it!

I POSTED SEVERAL, AGAIN FALSE!

The challenge still stands... Show me any political leader who was openly advocating public desegregation prior to 1964! Just one example?

Joseph H. Rainey, for one!

You can read what you want to into my comments, you haven't given us any examples of public legislation to desegregate anything yet. No presidents or Congressional leaders advocating it, nothing... save for an instance of Truman desegregating the military in 1948, you have nothing. There is no verbal snafu, just as there is no record of Congress supporting desegregation for nearly a century. You can try to hide from that or live in denial of it if you like, I can't change the mind of a bigot, and I won't try.


CIVIL RIGHTS ACT of 1875, Joseph H. Rainey....just to get started!


YOUR VIEW OF POST CIVIL WAR AMERICA IS IGNORANT, WRONG AND SILLY! With as much misinformation you have, I understand better why your world view is so warped!